Fear rides the MAX

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Let's just make it country simple, OK ?

Obviously, the Portland metropolitan area is growing rapidly, and a city with well over two million inhabitants needs commuter rail. The problem lies in our approach.

The "open" or "honor system" approach, where you (supposedly) buy a ticket and then board without passing through a gate has clearly failed. The evidence is overwhelming.

The people causing the problems on the MAX system are not the people who pay to use it, to get to and from work, school, leisure, and so forth. Many of the troublemakers simply jump on the train without paying, and then scatter like cockroaches when the police arrive.

I have personally observed rowdy gangs of teenagers, who it appears have been raised, if you can even call it that, with no parental supervision whatsoever, board without paying and then proceed to threaten and bully everyone and anyone on the train.

I have been working late at night in the area along the Eastside MAX lines, and observed innumerable incidents of savage, random violence. I've been attacked myself, and my taxi's windows have been shattered by brick-chucking thugs. Many, many people have told me that they simply no longer ride that portion of the MAX, fearing for their very lives.

If we are indeed going to grow up and become a real city, we need to start acting like a real city, and install a closed system, with turnstiles and dedicated transit police, like you see in most of our large metropolitan areas.

How many people who would have normally taken MAX to school, work, or play today chose not to, because of serious and genuine concerns for their safety, and instead drove, further clogging our antiquated, narrow freeway system, a system that is rapidly approaching gridlock ?

"Cabbie"

(email verified)

Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 05:31 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

The serious problem is fear of reprisal. there is no easy way to report crime on MAX, certainly not in a timely manner. always has to be 'after the fact' reporting with little chance of justice. Intervening in gangs of foul-mouthed youths is just stupid unless you yourself are in a large group of people who can stand up to them. Without getting into the debate on parenting, we have to have visible monitoring - human - not cameras - of riders and because of the sealed in drivers, no-one cares, they never come out of there except to change drivers and criminals know it. I agree with the article note on the vulnerability of I84 stations. very poor single-entrance design, which leaves you feeling trapped down there.

"js"

(email verified)

Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:00 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Conduct on Max has been a problem for years. I have seen, many times, fare inspectors walk right by people that have not paid and ask to see tickets from people going to work.

I no longer will ride Max. I'm tired of the fowl language, the disrespect for others and the fact it is simple not safe on the train or especially on the platforms.

"John"

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Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:11 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Let's get Blackwater to patrol the Max....but let's not give into fear over these stupid little gang bangers. This is our city, this is our Max and this is our problem. If it is a gang problem then we as a community, as a society, need to get others to understand that the idea that living "tha thug life" is o.k. It's a crap ideal lived by ignorant people. Next time a train car full of people sees a crime like that against "Granpa Laurie" I urge the whole car to empty out on the perpetrator and tear him/her to shreds. We pay the taxes that keep the Max running, we pay the full-fares, we use the Max to go do honest work, why should we give into fear. If the crimes happen to 1/10 of 1% of the riders then the other 99.9% need to step and stop it in it's tracks.

"Sick of it all"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:11 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I pretty much stopped using this mode of transportation several months ago after witnessing violence over and over. It's a failed science project and, in retrospect, money poorely invested.

""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:15 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Jim Redden forgot to mention the plans on extending light rail all through the City of Vancouver as part of the Columbia River Crossing project.

"Jossa"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:16 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

There is little question that TriMet and the MAX system play a key role in the future of the Portland metropolitan area. The question for those in charge is whether the role will be positive or negative. If MAX is abandoned by the mom and pop ridership for fear of safety, the system will degenerate into a moving crime magnet. Regular people - people who will be asked pay taxes/fares one way or the other to support the system will choose other options. Portland will begin to look more like Detroit.

TriMet has an obligation to move quickly and competently on retaking the MAX system from the criminals. There can be no compromise and no chinsiness about it. If it takes a full-time officer on each car, TriMet should do it and do it without hesitancy.

The TriMet Board is appointed by the Governor. If TriMet fails to take immediate and comprehensive action, the Governor should request the resignation of current board members and appoint new ones who will not flinch at the task of securing the system for law abiding citizens.

The MAX represents a huge capitol investment by our community. TriMet needs to spend whatever additional it takes to make the system work for you and me - NOT for the crooks and thugs who presume to make our MAX their office. TriMet, its board and the General Manager cannot be allowed to come up with anything less than a total and complete solution to this problem. Not next year. Not after holding a series of “summits.” Not even next week. Now. Today.

"Transit Guy"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:17 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Eventually these gangland kids are going to harass someone armed with a gun and those shiny new trains are going to be splattered with the blood of these criminals. Maybe then TriMet will actually do something about it.

I remember their slogan from the late 90's. It was "How we get there matters". Apparently that is no longer the case, since there is no guarantee a law abiding rider will get there at all!

"MaxFactor"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:17 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

NO MORE HONOR SYSTEM

we need to follow such examples as the London Tube or San Francisco BART where you ticket in, and ticket out. It will remove unwanted trash from the lines.

"eastside is ghetto"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:24 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Part of the problem has been Fred Hansens refusal to admit the crime issue. I'm glad that he's finally being pushed into doing something. It's really an easy fix. Just put more cops on the MAX beat.

"Craig"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:25 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Why doesn't Jacobsen quit complaining and ride the #12 bus from Hollywood to the Convention Center instead of the Max.

One of the greasted unspoken assets of light-rail expansion is the spread of crime. Instead of isolating it to small pockets in traditionally high-crime areas, Max spread the "wealth" so to speak. We should expect to see less crime in current high-crime areas and see more of it on the West Side, soon to be the I-205 corridor, Milwaukee and hopefully Lake Oswego and Dunthorpe when the street car is extended that way.

As a proud resident of SE PDX, its nice to know that my fellow Portlanders (suburbs included) are not the "not in my backyard" types like you see in other cities.

"Coleman Kutz"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:34 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I just figured out the TriMet board - people who are appointed by the Gvernor - includes none other than ... the esteemed Bernie Giusto. No wonder the crooks are in control of the system!

"Transit Guy"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:37 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I Grew Up on The Outer East Side in the late 70s and joined the Military in 1980. The East Side was a Typical Suburban Area of nice homes and sorts. I didn't Come back to Portland at All Until 1989. Wow What a Change My Friend who Lived off Glisan was not there the 205 Goes right Threw where his Home Was. and The Max was Running Out Burnside. Over the years The Crime has been up, up, up, within the Max Blocks. As of 2002 We As a Family Forced Our Mother to Sell her Home off Glisan & 136 Right Near the Cop Shop and move to A More Safer Part of the State. I waited for her at Cub Foods in Gateway Once and had 5 people Come up To Me Asking for Money. I reported it to the Staff, Did They Care... No One of them Thought "it was the Right of the Bum To Beg for money". He said he "Heard it on the News Or Something". What a joke the Whole Area has become around the Max Line. Problems Are Starting on The west Side Max just Like onb the East Side Did years Ago. I Feel Sorry for the Milwaukee area, No More trips to Clackamas TC for Me. I'll Go Pay Tax at the Vancouver Mall.

"Fight the Free Ride For Thugs"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:43 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

These "kids" are actually loosely organized youth gangs who know that they can board Max without paying and through their strength in numbers intimidate the lawful paying riders into giving them both money and possessions, such as cd players, clothing, etc. They even have a term for their robbery which they call "taxing".

The Portland police have known about these gangs for many years and have done little to nothing to proactively prevent it. One proactive approach that has been mentioned several times would be to charge fares and to have inspectors onboard. These "kid" gangs are not going to pay a fare for each one of their gang to board Max to rob someone. Right now they get to do it for free.

Obviously, the Portland transit police have alienated their partners on the Transit police taskforce and along with the Portland City officials/commissioners have taken the approach of denying that there is any crime problem, all the while letting it increase in size. Get rid of those lazy transit police managers and use their inflated salaries to replace them with transit police officers and/or inspectors who report to one of the existing precinct commanders.

Kudos to the Gresham mayor who has taken a serious position on this crime problem. Too bad that our Portland mayor, a former police chief himself, sits on his thumbs and anguishes over the designation of city landmarks and endless study groups while his city deteriorates into free transportation for the criminal element, again at the expense of the average law abiding, hardworking citizen who ethically pays for his ride.

"Bill"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:45 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Once again an example of too much crime and not enough cops. This has always been and will always be. Cameras aren't going to intervien, just watch. I use the MAX when I travel to and from the airport with bags in tow, if that doesn't make me a target I don't know what will. As a concealed weapons holder and a member of the law enforcement community, I don't travel armed. As this would make for bad press(for me)as I try to transition my concealed handgun from my person to my luggage (and get it unloaded) at the airport so I can legally travel (yeah right).

In a nut shell we live in a society where the bad guys don't follow the rules and run wild, while the supposedly free society has it's hands tied trying or wanting to defend it's self.

"GJS"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:03 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I agree the honor system should go but I don't quite see how installing turnstiles will work at many stops. Since most of the line is on street-level, all someone has to do is walk down the tracks and go right past a turnstile.

Here's what I think should happen, and I know it won't because it's expensive. Everyone who rides Tri-Met will have a card with a chip in it. I think they have something similar up in the Seattle area called a Puget Pass. Anyone who has one will have to pay a deposit on it everytime they need one (that way they won't just throw them away all the time) and they can be recycled and you would get your deposit back.

Let the pass act as a debit system and instead of turnstiles, just let someone wave their pass in front of a sensor near the door of the train maybe? That might be too hard because it would delay people. Maybe put the sensor by a ticket machine?

I don't know, something though that will keep the non-paying people off the trains and turn it into something that everyone can use. If not that, then fare enforcers all the time.

Also the low-income apartments being built all over East Portland near the line need to be reconsidered. I think they contribute to the crime.

"Chad in EPo"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:16 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I always feel safe I carry a shotgun

"ted"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:35 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

i personally know two people who've been attacked on the max. two seperate incidents, both ended up in the hospital, one died. neither incident was reported by our beloved local news. it almost seems as if tri-met and most, if not all local forms of media, have been paid off by the city to keep quiet about most violent crimes in order to keep order and sanity among the peoples.

ooohhh....if you guys only knew half of the messed up things that go by unanounced and undereported.......you'd all move away. far away, like canada.

"Jennifer Rae"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:48 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I quit riding MAX years ago after being threatened.

Now I am back to driving to work.

MAX SUCKS!!!!

"Cheese"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:51 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Since MAX doesn't reside in the "sovereign country of Tri-Met," but instead resides in Gresham, Portland, Beaverton, Hillsboro, and Multnomah and Washington Counties (soon to also be Clackamas), then THOSE communities need to step up with police coverage to provide security to the areas surrounding stops, AND the MAX platforms themselves.

I'd really like to know why we haven't heard from the Hillsboro Mayor, the Beaverton Mayor, the Portland Mayor, the County Boards, the police departments in the various cities (other than Gresham . . . thank you for that), and the County Sheriff's offices. WTF.

Who do they think is going to take care of this safety/security issue if not them? Again, there is no sovereign country of Tri-Met.

"Jeff"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 02:35 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Why exactly are we going to spend time and money on this issue?

Aren't there more important things to do in this city, like renaming streets to please special interest groups despite local protest?

"Erik"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 02:44 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I've worked for the FBI and the NYPD. I rode the NYC subway system for ten years and I never felt as unsafe as I do on the MAX. I felt safer on the NYC system at 10:00pm than I do on the MAX at 3:00pm.

Get rid of fareless square and the honor system. Get uniformed police and undercover officers on the trains and in the stations. Enforce the law. It takes adequate funding and the will to clean up the trains but first, and this seems to be the hard part, Tri-Met has to admit that it is not currently doing enough to make those trains safe and has to step-up the effort. Actions speak a lot louder than words...or safety summits.

"S."

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:09 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I have called Tri-Met to complain many times and learned the operators will not takes information unless we have Bus or Max ID numbers, max or bus stop ID number, time of the days, and names of what ever, if we don’t have them they say they can’t help. When I do have the information sides and it is our fault for what ever. One example, my daughter and her friends go to a bus driver for help when they are being harassed, they just shrugged their shoulders and walked away. I call and tell the operator then they take information and say they will pass it on. But things at the Transit Center are still the same, the drivers hangs out off to one smoking until I help my daughter get a car.

Tri-Met just give great lip service saying they will do all they can for the riders because they care for them. Why don’t they physically and actually do something for us now? But where is the help when we the riders need them? What about when the bus drivers just drive pass the bus stop when they are early and leave the would-be passenger stranded. Tri-Met just put all the money they get on new gadgets, but they don’t maintain them. They just let them deteriorate Now they building another Max line and planning another? Now I am thinking of getting a car for myself.

Tri-Met is failing us, they are just keep spending for their legends not for the city or the riders. The governor should just remove the Tri-Met board and get some people who care for the riders’ comforts and safety. Get rid of the foolish Honor System. That is a joke among riders and the bus drivers. They follow what works for cities transition instead looking to be the first. Try something like the Puget Pass.

If they don’t do something I will have to arm and defend my self. I am woman and have been harass at night when I used to work night shift.

Everyone needs to do something as whole or MAX will taken over completely by the gang and then it’s too late.

"Disgrntle Woman MAX and Bus Rider"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:18 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I spent time working at an organization with close ties to Tri-Met. I can with certitude, due to first hand experience, say that Tri-Met's official policy when it comes to the issue of crime is to pretend it is not a problem - "because if you looks at the statistics..."

This is their official public relations platform when dealing with crime, and this has been widely reported.

I don't think I have to say anymore.

"DS"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:20 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I'm a single mom moving to portland from nevada wanting to leave a city that's crim infested hopeing to come back home to a place my children would be safe, I was excited at the thought of catching the max to and from work and taking my daughters to show them around portland via max, now I'm terrified at the thought of riding the max and would fear my lil girls saftey. What are they doing about these attacks? Im going to have to get some protection, and will feel terrible for the family of the poor little thug that tries to hurt or take anything from me and my girls it would realy be sad cause things like that can be prevented with more security and tri met police taking their jobs more seriously, this was a city I've always took pride in, it use to be safe on max what happend.

"tinija"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:25 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Truly wasted money when simple solutions are available.

What is the cost of four men in bright yellow vests roaming around Gateway offering no advice, no directions? I saw this on Wednesday night.

It would take only one of these men to stand at an entrance validating tickets as people move onto the platform area for boarding, or one of them riding on a train checking tickets. Hey, four guys that's one per shift or even two per shift. Then there’s the three police man that boarded that night to walk through our area and then move into the next area to begin checking tickets. This labor would not be needed if the checking was done at the station prior to entering the boarding area or if one of our bright yellow vested men rode on the train and checked new boarders.

So we have labor of four guys walking back and forth by us, offering no help as we read and try to figure out how to get a ticket…..and the policemen checking only a few tickets Take this labor and apply it differently, something has to come out of it…..

Portland tried to make MAX easy for boarding with no thought that we actually need everyone to pay before using, the self pay/self board is simply not working, and never will…..

Imagine if everyone on MAX actually paid! What a concept, it could pay for people at every entrance or one person on each train. Didn’t fees just go up on MAX. And for what? To cover all the people hopping on with no ticket? Think about how much cleaner, safer and more comfortable MAX would be if the people using MAX were only the people paying to get on…..

"SON"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:03 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I used to live in DC and although the crime rate there is much, much higher, the train system is an oasis of relative safety. There is a box at each end of each car which allows you to talk to the driver. The only time in five years that I witnessed an incident, two young men were intimidating riders, and were removed by tranist cops at the very next station. Surely in a town as relatively safe and affluent as Portland, we can afford enough transit police.

"Jack"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:21 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I have taken public transportation throughout my life in many different cities and I believe the answer is to get rid of the "honor system" - it does not work. The only people that should be on the platforms and on the trains are paying customers of the system. Show me another major city in the country that has a "honor system" - i don't know of any. We have such a major investment in the MAX system, but it is time to ensure it is safe. yes, it will be expensive to retrofit stations, etc. and i know that Portland likes to be different, but this is not only a Portland transportation system - it is a regional system. So suburbs, rise up and demand a Safe MAX system - it's not rocket science, folks!

"Joe from the East Side"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:40 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Yeah! What about the raising of fares?

When there is this so-call Honor System!? If everyone pay, there would be no need to raise fare. It sad to say I have observe many times people struggling to pay for their fare have come short. A few times I have put in some change. I use a pass. Have to.

""Disgrntle Woman MAX and Bus Rider""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:47 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Common sense dictates that most of the problem is the honor system fare system. The lack of common sense keeps Tri Met's head in the sand on this point.

"Dave Lister"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:50 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

My solution to the madness -- I MOVED! I grew up down in the Salem area and lived in Beaverton and Portland for almost 12 years. I saw it deteriorate but it seems to have picked up its pace in the last 2 years. I got so fed up with the asinine issues in the Portland area that last August I packed up and moved back down to Salem. I was simply fed up with being harassed by vagrants at every turn, the sky high "rape" for housing and extravagant parking costs. Portland is a city in moral decay and the problems we're seeing are symptomatic of that decay which I fear will only continue if the current buffoons remain in office.

"Greg"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:58 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Tri Met doesn't need to have a summit on what to do about the problems it's having on its trains and buses. What they need to do is just ask the cops that respond to the calls how to stop the problems, because I think i could solve about 3/4 of the problems without ever making one arrest. It is simple if you know what you are looking for and have responded to hundreds of calls on the max stops. And i don't even work for the tri met division.

"ofc. smith"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 05:29 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Vigilanteism is the only interim solution.

If the Machine won't protect the People, it is up to the People to protect themselves (and others).

"Notorious Kelly"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:06 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Max riders are no better than those that commit these attrocious crimes. If you (the riders) don't try to stop the violence when you see it then you are only propogating it. A "gang" of kids is no match for a train load of people, but you are all pussies. Show some balls and stand up for yourself. Quite relying on an underfunded and frankly unresponsive police force to protect you. A safe max isn't going to happen if you are all passively watching and allowing violence to happen. I urge every rider to stand up and defend our right to a safe train ride.

"You are no better"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:08 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

The passive rider is no better than the people that committed these attrocious crimes. If you do nothing than you are only propogating more violence. We cannot expect an underfunded and frankly unresponsive police force to protect us. If we want a safe train we have to be willing to fight for it. A gang of kids are no match for a train load of people, but unfortunately the timid max rider would rather sit and watch a man almost die. If you want a safe train ride than grow some balls. Ignoring a problem might make you less of a "target" but it doesn't solve the problem. Stand up and defend yourself from local terrorism.

"you're no better"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:14 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

How about the City of Gresham Putting a blockade on the tracks and not Letting the Max in Until Tri-Met Does Something About it. Why Should the Gresham Police and their Tax payers have to devote their resources in It.

""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:19 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Increased cameras and lighting are nice, but it's been well beyond time to toss out the honor system. Tri-Met

Also, the city of Portland needs some people who actually realize that the city limits end around 162nd/174th, NOT I-205 and NOT 122nd. This part of town has received far too much neglect and something needs to be done.

"DS"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:20 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

We need armed citizens who are capable and willing to stand firm against these lawless, degenerate criminals. If the liberal peaceniks of the People's Republik of Portland don't like it, they can easily fix the problem with a little common sense. But until then, we can neither live in fear, nor expect government to provide us with a reasonable solution - at least until our pandering city council is done renaming yet another street in some ridiculous public welfare self-esteem program. The MAX system has cost the taxpayers hundred of millions of dollars, and it disgusts me that worthless non-paying punks use it as their personal crime vehicle while chasing and torturing the paying (and working) customers away.

Clackamas, gird thy loins. Tri-Met is about to open a pipeline of crime and violence into your community. You best stand at the ready.

"Dan E."

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:23 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

It seems there is universal agreement!

END THE HONOR SYSTEM!

END FARE LESS SQUARE!

GET SECURITY VISIBLY ON MAX AND MAX STATIONS!

Why did it take Trimet so long to get with the program?

Because the people that run Trimet live in a secluded little fortress over there in SE Portland, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year while the rest of us live in fear on their system!

And Fred Hanson taking the bus 17 to and from his office

doesn't cut it!

"ap margulies"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:43 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

baloney not enough cops.the cops are wasting too dam much time writing speeding tickets and harrassing us for other anal crap.its about police priorities and obviously the police dont care enough otherwise we would not have this problem.

"matthew vantress"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:49 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Simple solution. Start packing a concealed gun and ride the max. If someone has a baseball bat swinging it at someone else on the max you legally can use leathal force and shoot them.

Evenutlaly these gang punks will learn some respect.

"Cory"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:56 AM

Where does Tri-Met get their crime statistics?

Tri-Met, Fred, Mary, come on. Seriously.

Where do you get your statistics? Only from incidents TriMet Police respond to? You are aware of how often TM Police DON'T respond to calls at stations, right? So when Gresham PD or Hillsboro PD respond to the call and make arrests, issue tickets, etc, does this go into the stats?

Last Saturday night, SATURDAY NIGHT. There were two, count 'em, two Tri-Met Officers and one Tri-Met Sergeant FOR THE ENTIRE LINE. Are you kidding me? How can these poor guys/gals even hope to make a dent? Who comes up with that kind of scheduling?

And are you counting fare inspectors as officers? They can't arrest anybody. They don't even detain people. They just hope bad guys will stand by while they call and wait for a cop to show up.

If you only knew how often in Gresham there is a crime on a train or at the station or park-n-ride and Gresham cops call for Tri-Met police assistance as it is Tri-Met jurisdiction and the response they get is: "yeah, we'll be responding from downtown in a few minutes, so with travel time it'll be 25-45 min response." Gresham cops aren't gonna wait. They can handle it themselves and be on to the next call by then. Does THAT end up in the Tri-Met stats?

The individual cops down at Tri-Met aren't exactly the problem. Must be management's philosophy or something.

I'm proud of Mayor Bemis. And here's to hoping Tri-Met gets its butt in gear...

"Gresham Cop"

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Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 06:58 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Seems like almost every morning there are 3 or 4 or 5 Tri-Met people standing around the Gateway Transit Center smoking and talking. I suppose it's possible they are on a 3 minute break during a 12 hour day but that's not what it looks or feels like. It looks to me like they're standing around, doing nothin, when they could be/should be attending to the ridership either on the trains or the buses. Almost all of what I've read above in other people's comments I echo. I hate riding the Max. I really HATE it. I imagine saying or doing something when I see and/or hear wrong-doing but I am afraid for my life and I do not trust that other reasonable people would help me or support me or speak up along with me. So many people who ride nowadays really are the Scum of the Earth. So many good/regular people don't ride anymore because they just can't or won't take it any more. I do not trust that Tri-Met will do anything meaningful to change the "train wreck" that is indeed the MAX system in Portlandtown. I do feel some consolation in that so many people feel as I do. We need to Stand up. Speak up. Power to the People, I swear to God, isn't just a hollow lyric from the 60s.

"Suzan.evah"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 08:09 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I rode TriMet/Max for 3 years. In those three years it was almost constant harrasment by punks and gang members. I RARELY ever even saw anyone checking passes. It is not 100% TriMets fault though. Fellow passengers are not much better. My final straw came when I sat in a urine-soaked seat on the way to a job interview. As I stood up saying "WTF", another passenger said "Your the 2nd person to sit there in that soup."

"now I just drive"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 08:27 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Two years ago I had to take the Division tri-met bus downtown. At the 122nd stop, a group of loud older gang members, males & females boarded the bus, headed to the back and proceeded for the duration of the trip a loud, angry, obviously uneducated, profanity filled diatribe against the “white man”. My thoughts are that they wanted someone to confront them, give them a reason for violence, which no one did. No one would even make eye contact with them. The bus was full, the bus driver was aware of the situation and did nothing and forty people were forced to endure this for a half an hour, when the gang members finally disembarked and went merrily methed-out on their way to make someone else’s life miserable. This marked my final venture into public transportation.

I don’t think having one or two odd policeman on board of Max is going to be a deterrent. That sounds more like a target to me. Perhaps the answer would be an unpublicized sting operation with several undercover officers riding the trains, especially at peak crime times, like weekend & evenings. The second one of these gang groups got out of control, the whole bunch could be contained and arrested and fined to help pay for the program.

In the last 10 years, I’ve watched the serious decay of SE Portland, where I’ve lived most of my life. Especially between 122nd-182nd Ave. I’ve seen several violent crimes take place that have never received any news coverage. A Saturday evening out about the southeast Max stops is an eye opening experience that resembles a science-fiction end of the world movie.

I hope someone forwards all these comments to Tri Met, and to all the agencies that are going to have to clean up their mess.

"Allie"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 08:44 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I've been posting on other blogs telling everyone what a crappy system MAX is, in more ways than one. But it seems to go in one ear and out the other with these 'Europhiles' and/or 'railfans.' I guess that they are addicted to anything that operates on steel wheels.

MAX has been a big mistake. Portland Metro , by its very nature, is much better suited for buses. Maybe now we will wake up and see how we would have been much better off investing in the bus system instead of these oversize trolley cars.

BTW, I come from a rail backround, having grown up and ridden NYC subways all my life until I moved to Portland.

"Nick theoldurbanist"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 08:53 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

How about free passes on max for any "skinheads". They would take a serious bite out of crime of any mexican gangbanger. Would you feel safer with a train car load of "skinheads" or mexican gangbangers all around you? We have to protect ourselves, trimet will not.

"Oregon voeter"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 10:17 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

People, I am well versed in the martial arts.................when I ride the MAX I am never fully at ease until I get off. You have loud mouthed criminals who ride it, harrass riders and just plain make it unpleaseant for them. I can't imagine how scary it must be for the average rider!

"Steve"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 10:46 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

What do you expect with public transit? The dregs of society rely on it!

""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:14 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

How About All the Tri-Met Officals, County Commies, and the like Who Love the System be Forced to ride it for a month. I Bet there are Changes Then.

"But It Will Never Happen"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:42 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

“headed to the back and proceeded for the duration of the trip a loud, angry, obviously uneducated, profanity filled diatribe against the “white man”. My thoughts are that they wanted someone to confront them, give them a reason for violence, which no one did. No one would even make eye contact with them. The bus was full, the bus driver was aware of the situation and did nothing”

I want to defend the action of the bus driver in this situation. Be aware had the driver confronted this man there is no way to know how it would end. Obviously the man is psychotic. A confrontation could have lead to violence and everybody on the bus would have been held up for over an hour. The man was crazy but not bothering anybody. He was rude, last time I looked rudeness is not against the law.

I support the drivers actions in this situation.

“I've been posting on other blogs telling everyone what a crappy system MAX is, in more ways than one. But it seems to go in one ear and out the other with these 'Europhiles' and/or 'railfans.”

Some of those blogs are useless for discussions. Dissenting opinions are bullied right out of the blog and many of the participants don’t want to hear anything resembling facts, unless it agrees with their view of the world.

We can see from the response to the article where the truth lies, the public is fed up with Max security. It can be fixed; it just takes some simple changes to be made.

It’s my guess that things are going to change on Max, or else politician’s heads will roll, and that is usually the only thing that makes change happen.

"AL M"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:47 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Politician's Heads Never Roll. The People of the republic of the Tri County Area Will Continue to Vote for Them.

"Wishfull Thinking"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:53 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I'd like also to point out, that on this blog, free speech is allowed, unlike some of those other blogs.

You can post whatever you want at the Portland Tribune without being "screened" like some of those other blogs.

THANKS TRIB, IN MY BOOK YOUR THE BEST PAPER IN PORTLAND!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 12:57 PM

Editorial response:

While we do allow readers fairly broad latitude in comments, it's not accurate to say that "you can post whatever you want without being screened."

Comments are automatically filtered upon submission to exclude spam, profanity and other objectionable content and we routinely remove comments that make it through the filter if they violate our comment policy.

James Marks
Webmaster
Pamplin Media Group

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Maybe they can convert a bunch of that unsellable High Density Housing downtown into public housing to encourage the criminal element to stay there instead of in spread out along the entire MAX line.

"m"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:08 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

yes, the Portland Tribune is the best. I trust to read news the Other won't print.

""Disgrntle Woman MAX and Bus Rider""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:10 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I've been surprised that Tri-Met hasn't gone to a more closed system than it has now. When I visited Boston and rode the T, you had to have fare to get on the trains.

If it was in an underground area, it was pretty easy since you had to go through the turn styles to get into the area, and there were security watching. When it was underground in these areas, all doors on every train opened.

However, the T also goes above ground. Once it did this, only one door per set of connected trains would open. You gave your fare to the person when you got onto the train, or you didn't get on. Simple as that.

When KATU ran a story a few months back about the cost of people not paying tickets, I pointed out that if the fares were all paid, it would pay for the extra employees on the trains. In any case it would help cut down crime, as criminals typically don't want to pay the fare and cause trouble on the trains because no one is really watching.

I rode the T at all times of the day and night, even after a big Red Sox win and the cars were full of drunks. The only time in the system that I ever felt uneasy was walking down the long corridors to get out of the underground T and back up to the Boston Commons.

Obviously the system they have in place to ensure people are paying their fare isn't working. So it's time to look at a new plan, and it only makes sense to see what is working in other cities.

"Jenni Simonis"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 02:36 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

and you people all voted for Measure 49 which will only allow more of this prison like ghetto living to fluorish. You made your bed NOW LIE IN IT! HA HA!

""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:08 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Portland has this funny idea that they want to be a little European city and they try to funcion like European cities do.

Unfortunately, this is not Europe and what works in Western Europe is not appropriate for American Cities.

Maybe some day the planners will get that through their collective heads

"Louis"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:22 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

As someone who has ridden Max an average of 8xs per week and buses atleast half that many weekly, i am fully aware that there are risks and dangers with riding both. And, i have at times been quite uncomfortable at some Max/Bus stops and even on Max and buses, yet have so far never been seriously threatened, let alone attacked personally. And i realize that i am among the more fortunate in that regard.

Why then, do i still smell a red herring in all of this rather sudden onslaught of concern over crime on the Max?? Are you pushing once again, for an end to fareless square? Are you using this to justify major price increases? What is the angle here?...cause something tells me all this hoopla still isn't really all about my safety?!

And something tells me that if more people start suing Tri-Met, and even winning, over occurences near its transit stops - that what it will mean, is more people screaming for security everywhere and that of course, will mean - a major fare increase that will make mass transit less viable for those who actually need it the most/can least afford to drive cars/cycles/etc.

Yes, i agree there should be more fare inspectors, security guards during ALL hours of operations at ALL the Max stops that are isolated - like the HTC, 60th, and 82nd on the east side and whereever there are such on the west, and, i think there should be more security cameras and better lighting at high risk areas; but i really fear that lawsuits such as the one intended by Chilcote - will only result in pricing out the working poor.

I recently finally was able to afford a Moped to get off mass transit as much as possible; but it wasn't even because of my "fear" of waiting/riding, in fact, that didn't even enter into my decision - but rather, it was because the temporary (2+ years is not so "temporary" to those of us who must endure it on a daily basis) re-routes were poorly designed and got to be too ridiculous: buses didn't very conveniently stop near the next bus connections as before; there are even constant re-routes of the re-routes; constant stop closures and changes - even for the NEW re-routes!

It just got so bleeping ridiculous i had finally had enough! Hopefully my Moped will atleast last the 2+ years remaining in this insanity?!

"masstransit4all"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 03:46 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

"You can post whatever you want at the Portland Tribune without being "screened" like some of those other blogs."

Fortunately for many, it seems, the Trib is less discerning, than you want Max to now be. And many a die-hard racist has been having a free for all with this. Note: i'd rather be on a Max with a gang of color, than any skinheads and/or closet racists, and i am white...but i digress....

Seems i was right that a move is afoot to end fareless square?...i reckon that'll come about right around the time the new Convention Center Hotel is built, ey?

Hint: i ride more in fareless square than outside of it, and yet still have not witnessed anywhere near the incidents i've been reading about herewith. Not to say they haven't happened, but rather that fareless square is not the problem - but enforcing paying fares outside of it - is the real problem.

masstransit4all - even sadly, the skinheads and closet racists

"masstransit4all"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:40 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I heard the transit drivers said the Tri-Met board won't listen anyone not even suggestions from their bus drivers, but themselves. I believe they like to spend money to boast about their imaginey acheivements. I am very unhappy about their lip services and their careless about the honour system.

"""Disgrntle Woman MAX and Bus Rider"""

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 11:44 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Where is BatMan when you need him?

Commissioner, put out the beacon!!!

"skeptic"

(email verified)

Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 11:50 PM

Obtain a Oregon Concealed Handgun License

MAX is just another reason of why I carry concealed. Police officers are just history recorders. The train operator will not come out of the cab to save you. You can only protect yourself. The Supreme court has ruled the police have no obligation to protect you.

Crime will continue to occur even when you put up a sign that says like, "Somthing free zone." The sign can do nothing.

"CMoore"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 12:18 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I agree that we need a solution to this mess. Because I don't like driving, I try to use public transit or biking as much as possible. However, I've lost track of how many times I felt unsafe as I sat near a group of (usually black) youth, loudly spouting off every type of profanity, doing drug deals and intimidating other passengers. Of course it's not limited to blacks, since Latino youth (which is my background) are in on the act too. It's all the more frustrating, given the "open borders" and "open arms" attitude of our local leaders. Don't they realize that the vast majority of people who come here illegally are obviously predisposed to breaking laws, since the laws against illegally entering this country didn't deter them? Don't they also realize that we are not getting Mexico's best and brightest but rather the desperate, poor, and uneducated from the lowest ranks of the socioeconomic scale there? And then we're surprised when criminal activity ensues? The issues are bigger than the morons in local government (with Adams at the top of the pack) are capable of seeing, who are nothing more than myrmidons of every fantasy Disneyesque dictate of so-called new urban planning.

I called Tri-Met to complain once immediately after a bus trip in which a large group of black teenagers were doing drug deals and harassing other riders with threats and foul language. I gave the bus line and the time. The operator told me that Tri-Met could do nothing because they had to be careful, lest they be accused of racism.

All this to show that our local governments are crippled by empty-headed knee-jerk white liberals who have succumbed to a pervasive political correctness that prevents them from being effective leaders. (Just see how much self-satisfaction they derive from forcing others to pay for the name change of Interstate. Oh yes, now they can congratulate themselves for "doing something" for the Latino community. If the solution is making someone else pay more money, that is the beginning and end of their creativity.) It is past time we had leaders who didn't care about color and focused their talents instead on good government.

"Rick"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 12:46 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Trimets answer is more lighting and cameras? Wow, I feel much safer now....more lights and cameras is way better than a real uniformed officer. I wonder how the cameras check fares? Must be some great technology.

"Maybe the cameras have built in tasers"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 01:03 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Ok, the experiment is over.

Can we make Portland a car friendly city now?

"Mark L"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 01:24 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

#1 More cameras is not the solution

#2 More wackenhut is not the solution

#3 More meetings/"safety summits" is not the solution

#4 Pointing fingers is not the solution

It's simple. Give the resources necessary to combat problems on the system and the system would be better. What do i mean by resources? The police need to be dealing with crime and strategies to effectively deal with it. The police don't need to be checking fares with the fare inspectors. The police need to prioritize their mission. You have problems in Gresham? Ok, take your resources to the Gresham area and clean it up. Don't take your resources, which are not many to begin with and aimlessly patrol the three counties which the Transit division is responsible for. That is not beneficial to anyone. Officer presence on the trains would eleviate a lot of the crime and reduce the fear for the law abiding citizens. Here is how i would do it. First, a zero tolerance approach. If you act out/hang out with no purpose of boarding a bus or train you get excluded. if you come back on the property during your exclusion you get arrested. You get arrested you go to jail. You come back again, you go to jail. Pretty soon the problem people know to stay away. Now this only works with a constant police prescence. Not the one or two day mission to combat problems. Thats why it's necessary to prioritize your manpower and send them to hot spots. Sure their are unique challenges throughout the system, so let's deal with the most serious and cure that before we aimlessly patrol other parts of the system. Thank you

"Problem solver"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 02:34 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

“Why then, do i still smell a red herring in all of this rather sudden onslaught of concern over crime on the Max?? Are you pushing once again, for an end to fareless square? Are you using this to justify major price increases? What is the angle here?...cause something tells me all this hoopla still isn't really all about my safety?!”

The above statement is the biggest problem the rest of us face. We have these ‘fools’ (sorry about the apparent insult but there is no other word to use) who just won’t face up to the problem. No matter how many facts are presented, no matter how many people get assaulted, these people continue to insist there is no problem. I’m starting to wonder if they are TRIMET officials!

“said the Tri-Met board won't listen anyone not even suggestions from their bus drivers, but themselves.”

Who in the heck are those people anyway? From where I sit it seems they are nothing but sitting on a “perk” appointment because they know the right people. They just rubber stamp everything that comes before them.

“All this to show that our local governments are crippled by empty-headed knee-jerk white liberals who have succumbed to a pervasive political correctness that prevents them from being effective leaders.”

There might be a hint of truth in the above statement.

“If you act out/hang out with no purpose of boarding a bus or train you get excluded. if you come back on the property during your exclusion you get arrested.”

Well that would certainly solve the problem!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 03:50 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

It is clear there is a lot of outrage brought about by the recently publicized issues on MAX. Though a growing problem, it is not a new one. The problems with MAX have gone on too long and have been downplayed by TriMet, so have not gotten the attention they have deserved. This is an opportunity and the time for communities to take action. We, as a community, and each neighborhood, need to take at look at ourselves, too, if not at first, for resolution.

There will never been enough police, and in spite of the addition of extra security by TriMet, the problems will persist and get worse, in all likelihood. TriMet's security, Wackenhut, is not even allowed to intervene in a violent, or other, crime. The police, currently, are the only ones sanctioned by TriMet, to take physical action to stop someone from hurting, harassing or intimidating another person.

But the citizens and riders, those who live by, or use TriMet or MAX, need to step up now, too. If we continue to let our neighborhoods and our mass transit become crime zones, they will. Then, we will lose much of what makes Portland a special place. It will be like many other big cities where people spend much of their time in fear.

People will drive more, too, if there is no improvement in the mass transit system. Portland is a place which prides itself on being environmentally conscious. But fewer and fewer people will be willing to ride the train or bus if it is just to dangerous, or we don’t feel safe doing so.

People need to be willing to get involved, either physically or to get descriptions and be willing to report. We need to stop holding only the police responsible. They can only do so much, not matter what you think about them or how they do it. They are limited in number and they are mostly RE-active, called in after the fact.

The Guardian Angels have been riding MAX for two plus years now. We see a lot there, but, when we are there, because people know that we will get involved, it is seldom that anything happens. More groups should come together to create this type of watchful environment. Let it be known that activities will be reported. As neighborhoods, riders and citizens, we need report so much that the police have constant contact with us. They need our information much of the time to help them deal with the problem. Then need our reports. Get descriptions. Note times and dates. Keep logs. Report, report, report. If the need is there, if the reported incident statistics then prove a greater need for police and security, the governing bodies will need to look at and address that. Still, there will never be enough, but get involved.

If fear of retribution is an issue, report to someone else, like the Angels. If you witness a violent crime, and the police are looking for witnesses, but you are concerned for your safety, bring it to us, or someone else. Report anonymously. Even that can help. If offenders are more often caught, and prosecuted, due to our involvement, it can send a message of intolerance for their behaviors and hopefully help push them back underground.

Find a way that works for you. Join your local Weed and Seed. Join the Angels. Form neighborhood watches. Just be willing to get involved and take responsibility for your community. Make those Neighborhood Watch signs mean something again. Show the people who are making us afraid that this is unacceptable. And do keep holding TriMet and the authorities accountable for working on those specific issues. Keep Portland Safe and Dare to Care.

"Michael McDanie. Chapter Leader, Portland Guardian Angels"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 06:19 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I'm sorry Al, but i never said that there was "no problem" and, I am not a Tri-Met Official. I am a working stiff who has had to use mass transit for the last 5 years due to lack of resources to afford my own ride.

But the fact is, i do alot of riding in fareless square and simply have not witnessed near what i am reading about. Yes, i have been exposed to a fair share of annoying drunks, loud and foul mouthed teens, and irritating cell phone yackers. And, i do have apprehensions at times about some arguments escalating - but for my own personal experience, it just hasn't been that untenable. Admittedly, now that i've read more stories, i am more concerned when i do leave fareless square than i was previously. And, i will accept peoples' word for it, that there is a more serious problem.

And, if i really were, a Tri-Met Official - I would put people on notice, that atleast two days out of each week, there will be fare inspectors on every single train, for every hour of operation. It wouldn't all be done on the same day for every train, but each train would get covered for the entirety of its route, atleast twice weekly. I would also place security on each car of each train during identified high risk hours.

The money saved from just doing this, could help to purchase atleast gated entrances to all the low platform stops, like Hollywood Transit Center, 60th, 82nd, and so forth. Where a fare must be submitted prior to even entering the elevator/stairs to said platforms, and, a fare must be submitted to exit them, as well.

I do agree with alot of you on atleast this one issue: the more fare inspectors they have and utilize, the more they will see real fare paying increase, and the more they will be able to afford the increased security presence.

But again, ending fareless square is no solution, rather, enforcing paid fare beyond its boundaries better, as well as better human security during identified high risk times - is.

"masstransit4all"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 07:59 AM

Re: Terrorism fear rides the MAX

How about a New York subway style gated entry with encoded strip for monthly passes and photo shots for all users. The increased revenues would help pay for the equipment and security to patrol the stations and trains. I say raise the fare as needed as well.

That still doesn’t address the fact that violent crime should be curtailed. I recommend treating violence perpetrated by gangs as a form of terrorism that should incorporate the possibility of indefinite incarceration or any other form of profound punishment. A preemptive form of dealing with this issue would be welcome. Osama bin Laden isn’t as much of a threat to my daily safety as the punks on the Max, therefore I say treat them with less sympathy and watch the change happen overnight.

"Donald"

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 08:29 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

interstate max line don't have that much crime yet, but wait until they start making that area more with more density. I'm waiting for a riot to break out on the max between the police and the gang of youth who don't care about auhority. They challenged the police before at the bowling alley and they would do it again.

""

(email verified)

Sat, Nov 10, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

Just yesterday I was on my way to a Matial Arts tournament at he convention center. While standing at the gateway stop I and all the other bystanders had to listen to 2 bums scream obscenities at each other accross the track. They both got on different trains.........with buying a ticket. Meanwhile 2 dumpy Tri-Met officials were taking pictures of a bench on the platform (I didn't ask why). They didn't call for help or confront these 2 losers, what good are they? 2 potientially violent men get on 2 seperate trains and the police aren't notified by Tri-Met officials, something needs to be done!

Unless they want to legalize vigilantism than a real police force needs to start patrolling those platforms and a real pay to ride system needs to be set up.

"Shocked"

(email verified)

Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 12:21 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I quietly quit using MAX and riding the bus a few years ago. I don't think any of the elected officials or the bureaucrats care about how dangerous my ride is. They have their ideology and are hell-bent on getting what they want no matter who gets hurt along the way. We are in a Mad Max situation. I have opted out.

"Pat G. Long"

(email verified)

Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 04:33 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I rode MAX frequently until about five years ago when black and Latino gangs took over. It used to be a rather pleasant experience. Now, I'm never quite sure if I am going to get knifed or gunned down. Where did all these gangs come from? Are some of them the illegal elements the mayor is trying to welcome? Portland used to be a good weird. What happened?

"H.C.A."

(email verified)

Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 04:45 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

H.C.A. as our esteemed Mayor was quoted when he was our useless police chief " Portland has no gang problem" so don't worry, what you've been seeing doesn't exist............at least in the mind of our city officials.

As far as where the Latino gangs come from, I 'll quote our mayor again " They are Portland residents too!" Remove the illegals and you remove 3/4's of the latino gang members.

"Steve"

(email verified)

Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 11:26 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I rode Max for years, but eventually it became clear that Trimet was losing control over what was happening. I remember years ago when I contacted the Max operator about two men who were harassing a woman. He stopped the train and came to the back car carrying what looked like a large tire iron. Harassers were removed from Max, end of incident. But those days are over. The last two times I complained the operator did nothing.

Eventually it got to the point where I wouldn't ride the Max without carrying a (licensed) concealed handgun. I wasn't so much worried about what would happen on the train, but what would happen at the stations.

But you know, any time you're in a situation where you feel like you can't go somewhere without a gun, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place. So I drive now. My employer offers a free Trimet pass, but I say "thanks but no thanks."

"Former rider"

(email verified)

Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 11:43 PM

no respect for public opinion

If general public ever attend a full blown TriMet or Metro meeting (at times it is difficult to even differentiate between the two, the same faces show up in all these meetings)they will know right away that the TriMet and Metro officials themselves engage in Gang-like activities.

They move in packs, are quite unprofessional and disrespectful towards anybody who doesn't belong to their team or doesn't confirm to their ideas. They deliberately use engineering and planning 'jargons' to intimidate others and talk loudly (just like the rowdy gang youths) when others make presentations and do everything possible to discourage public participation.

Its time for general public to participate forcefully in these meetings. We have to be more thick skinned to tackle the TriMet arrogance of not paying attention to the public safety issue that has been repeatedly coming up for sometime now.

My suggestion is :

please go to these early morning meetings at Metro and see what these people are doing. Its time they stop self-celebrating and patting each other on their back and solve this real problem for a change.

"SS"

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 03:18 AM

A fix.

Go back & read what "Gresham Cop" said. Three cops on for an *entire* Tri-County system? Thats about as smart as building a $54 million dollar jail facility without a County Commission that is willing to staff it, as we have now.

Citizens need to demand that politicians and Tri Met Gen Mgr Fred Hansen return approproate levels of staffing of Tri Met police to effectively cover the system. If he is unwilling to do so he should be replaced with a person capable of restoring order and security to the system.

Also, the citizens of Gresham need to find the willingness to support a permanent tax increase to increase the staffing in their own city police by at least 35-40% to address the increases in population and crime.

A levy is a quick fix that fine until a economic downturn occurrs. If you levy expires at the same time there is always drastic reduction in services. A robust patrol force would easily take care of the current problems. It is essential to have continuity in systems in funding public safety.

"Widget"

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 03:50 AM

A fix.

Go back & read what "Gresham Cop" said. Three cops on for an *entire* Tri-County system? Thats about as smart as building a $54 million dollar jail facility without a County Commission that is willing to staff it, as we have now.

Citizens need to demand that politicians and Tri Met Gen Mgr Fred Hansen return approproate levels of staffing of Tri Met police to effectively cover the system. If he is unwilling to do so he should be replaced with a person capable of restoring order and security to the system.

Also, the citizens of Gresham need to find the willingness to support a permanent tax increase to increase the staffing in their own city police by at least 35-40% to address the increases in population and crime.

A levy is a quick fix that fine until a economic downturn occurrs. If you levy expires at the same time there is always drastic reduction in services. A robust patrol force would easily take care of the current problems. It is essential to have continuity in systems funding public safety.

"Widget"

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 03:50 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I am disappointed to see so much negative attitude toward MAX. I ride MAX frequently and, while I have felt uncomfortable, have never felt threatened. I think the feeling of danger exceeds the actual threat, in part because of the presence of rowdy teenagers and the homeless, many of whom are intoxicated and/or suffer from mental illness. These are segments of society that most middle class MAX riders are not often forced to confront... except on MAX, where they understandably cause discomfort. I do not think we can make MAX more inviting by policing alone (although I do think MAX needs greater police presence and fare enforcement). In addition to looking at the world around us, I think we need to look inside ourselves for the cause of fear.

"J.L."

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 06:17 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

J.L., it looks like you're excusing these people for being mentally ill and/or intoxicated? I slightly understand your mental health argument but to excuse the others because they are intoxicated due to personnal choice is pathetic at best!

It sound more like the thoughts of a liberal who hasn't met a criminal they don't like. Something tells me you and your family neither ride the MAX or at least not in the areas the rest of us do, easy to judge from a far. Come on down and get the nickle tour someday!

"Mentally unstable an/or intoxicated"

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 07:45 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

JL - I think people's level of feeling threatened are very different. I know for me, it is very different being alone as opposed to traveling with my 3 kids. In the end though, it doesn't matter. You have to admit that there is a massive problem here, and it is a loss of confidence in the MAX...unless Trimet makes some serious changes, that will only decrease. It seems to me, there are a few things that need to be done immediately

1) Have a greater police presence. Way to go Gresham PD for stepping up. Now we need Portland, Beaverton, etc. to join in. There doesn't need to be a cop in every car on every train, but they have to ride frequently enough so that the thugs know at the next stop, a cop can walk on.

2) Stop the free ride. Get rid of the fare free zone, and make it so that you can't get on the train without paying. Even if we had one person patrol each train, the money made up in fines would pay the salary. I have seen a fare collector once, and when he came through, at least half the car I was in did not pay! All he made them do was leave. That is crazy, what kind of incentive is that not to pay - to just be delayed 9 minutes? If drivers can pay $250 to go 50 in a 40 zone, then max riders can pay $250 to evade the fare.

I think these two steps will get a lot of the thugs and undesireables off max. It is going to take a lot to have me step back on the train. I don't see Tri-Met having the political will to fix this though - they don't even admit that there really is a problem.

"Greshamguy"

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 09:40 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

I broke down and came to Portland this weekend and yes, I rode the MAX a few times. You would think that all the hulabaloo surrounding this recent crime wave there would be ample security everywhere. I never say ONE - not even a wackenhut one, riding the trains! I did see five wearing their yellow vests huddled together and smoking at the Peterson's by the Galleria. I also noticed there 10-20 people sitting at cubicles at the Tri-Met police station in OldTown/Chinatown but not appearing to be doing anything productive. I think people in the Portland area are being bamboozled by TriMet (along with other agencies).

""

(email verified)

Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 12:33 PM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

"And, if i really were, a Tri-Met Official - I would put people on notice, that atleast two days out of each week, there will be fare inspectors on every single train, for every hour of operation."

GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME "masstransit4all"

THANKS!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 08:11 AM

Re: Fear rides the MAX

As we can all see, and I'm sure its no surprise to many of us, WHAT WE THINK DOES NOT MATTER!

Public officials do whatever the hell they want, from the very top (ala George Bush) all the way down to a teeny tiny agency like TRIMET!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 08:13 AM