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Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
State committee, others call for safety measures from TriMet
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“Every potential passenger needs to feel safe to ride the system, and we are not there,” Hansen said.
System’s grown since ’80s
During the hearing, Hansen said that the basic design of the MAX system contributes to the problems. As Hansen told the committees, the first MAX line from Portland to Gresham was designed in the 1980s to be different from every other transit system in the country.
The stations were designed to be easily accessible instead of being isolated or underground. As a result, there are no gates or turnstiles that passengers must pass through after buying tickets.
“The stations were designed to be part of the city, to be part of the streetscape,” Hansen said.
According to Hansen, although the design worked well at first, it has fallen victim to the region’s growing population.
“Around 55,000 people a day ride MAX now. That’s a mobile city, really, and brings along all the problems of a city,” Hansen said.
In addition, Hansen told the committee that some of the east-side stations are poorly designed. He cited the Northeast 42nd and 82nd avenue stations as being built below street level, making them hard to patrol because they are out of sight.
“We would not build them like that today,” he said.
And Fareless Square creates enforcement problems, Hansen said. The free-ride zone that stretches from downtown to the Lloyd District makes it easy for riders to board without buying a ticket and then remain on the trains after they leave Fareless Square.
“It’s much harder to collect fares then,” Hansen said of the riders who get on Fareless Square and travel outside its boundaries.
All stations being inspected
Following the attack on Chilcote, Hansen took several steps to increase security along the MAX line. Among other things, he directed the agency to increase the number of private Wackenhut security guards it uses, from 21 to 36.
He also ordered that all 64 MAX stations be inspected for safety improvements. Brighter lights and new closed-circuit TV cameras already have been added to several east-side stations. Shrubs have been trimmed at some locations to increase visibility.
Increasing law enforcement activities along the line will require the participation of every city and county MAX passes through, however. Although most already participate in the transit police, it only patrols along the line, not the surrounding areas where Bemis, the Gresham mayor, argues many MAX riders are committing crimes.
To solve those problems, Hansen hopes to create new partnerships with the cities and counties along the line at the safety summit that begins Nov. 30.
Ironically, two days before the attack on Chilcote, Bishop asked Hansen to join him in just such a partnership.
In a Nov. 1 letter to Hansen, the Beaverton police chief called for creating an Interagency Westside TriMet Police Division of the transit police to patrol the line west of the Vista Ridge tunnels.
According to the letter, Bishop already has the support of the Washington County sheriff’s office, the Milwaukie Police Department, the Hillsboro Police Department, the Tigard Police Department and the Clackamas County sheriff’s office for the idea.
How this division or any new partnerships would be funded remains to be seen. In his letter, Bishop said TriMet should pay for it. But the agency’s patrol budget for the transit police and Wackenhut guards already is set for next year at $7.4 million. No funds have yet been identified to pay for any significant increases.
The transit union’s Fowler also thinks TriMet needs to hire dozens more fare inspectors. He doubts the effectiveness of the Wackenhut security guards, noting their authority is limited.
“They seem to think Wackenhut is effective, but the thing is how can they be effective if they can’t write citations, they can’t exclude anybody, and they can’t even check a fare,” said Fowler, who represents fare inspectors in the transit unit board. “The way they’re going now, it might take them 80 or 90 (more fare inspectors) to gain and maintain control.”
jimredden@portlandtribune.com
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Reader comments
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Turnstiles, backed-up by ramp and on-board security would go a long way to solving the safety issue.
A turnstiles on it's own won't do a thing unless someone is there to catch anyone who jumps them. Ticket checkers aren't any good because they are afraid to challenge the obvious freeloaders so armed enforcement officers are needed.
The honor system MAX grand experiment is an utter failure, it's time to re-tool their operating priorities.
"Steve"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 01:48 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
This article confirms my worst fears..... Fred Hansen is not going to do anything just look at how he wiggles and worms his way out of the saftey/security questions. He claims it may not even be possible to ensure that everyone pays a MAX fare?? What a joke this joker should lose his job!! We need someone in there that is going to make real changes....Fred is a joke he has already given up on trying to correct things.......totally unacceptable.
"Steve in SE Portland"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 02:52 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
To those calling for turnstiles, please note that wherever you have barriers you must also have staff to police them and to allow passengers through when there is a ticket malfunction or a special situation such as a mobility device that won't fit through a turnstile.
There are over 60 stations in the MAX system (and if you count individual platforms, it's a significantly higher number), but outside of peak periods there aren't that many actual trains operating in the system.
That means that it is more cost-effective to position extra personally on the trains themselves, rather than to go through the cost of installing turnstiles, staff facilities, etc., at stations.
You can be more cost-effective by having roving staff that deboards at a station, patrols the station until the next train arrives, boards that train, etc., in a circuit.
Right now very few of the trains are inspected or patrolled, but with an increase in staff far less costly than staffing every station, you can patrol 25% of the trains. That may not sound like much, but in the real world it means the daily roundtrip rider will bee inspected every-other day, rather than the weeks and weeks (at least it seems) between inspections we now experience.
The issue of turnstiles is a distraction. More staff and more inspections are needed, more law enforcement officers are needed, but a massive change in how the system is configured is not necessary.
Many other cities use the same "honor system", such as San Diego (which opened before MAX), newer portions of San Francisco's MUNI system, Sacramento, St. Louis, Baltimore, Houston, Dallas, Denver and others.
It would be useful to compare crime statistics with those cities, and examine their levels of security staff and their crime prevention efforts.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 02:53 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Typo in my comment, above: "extra personally" should read "extra personnel".
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 02:54 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Eliminating Fareless Square, putting in turnstiles/checkpoints that will cause huge lines and delays - so, the hypothesis is to punish the innocent masses over the actions of the guilty few?
The "terrorists" really have won.
Portland's light rail was intentionally modeled after the system in most major European cities - I've ridden the trains in Budapest, Amsterdam, and Vienna and can tell you I felt as safe there as I once felt on the MAX when I used it to commute to my downtown job from Beaverton each day.
And they have the same honor system and easy access to train platforms.
I think the reason why the MAX has worked well up to now, and why the trains in those cities work so well, is the nature of the average rider - a normal, upstanding, law-abiding, respectful member of the community using the system to commute as a choice over driving either for convenience or other personal reasons.
Now that the criminal element has seen more of an opportunity presented by the MAX, the problem should be cut off at its root - not by punishing the innocent masses but by targeting and eliminating the troublemakers. Armed security personnel who double as ticket-checkers on every train or every other train would certainly be a good first step.
"J"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 03:24 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Thank you Rick Metsger - We need to keep the pressure on Tri-Met, and get rid of Hansen. The honor system is a complete failure. Perhaps we need to rethink the way max works, instead of trying to patch the problem.
"Greshamguy"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 03:34 AM
Here's a Start
I think "J" certainly has a point. Knee-jerk overreactions often cause more problems than they solve.
How many times at YOUR company have they changed an entire policy rather than disciplining the idiot employee for doing something dumb?
Have you ever been essentially punished because some moron co-worker couldn't follow the rules and equally moronic management overreacted?
Let's not do this in this case. Let's think through our solutions before we implement them.
And in the meantime (and since it's probably part of the actual solution) let's get rid of Wackenhut altogether. According to the article they can't check fares, make arrests, detain anyone, so what good are they? Their "mere presence" sure doesn't deter the bad guys and only comfort the non-thinkers on the train.
Let's spend the money from their contract on more actual Tri-Met police and/or fare inspectors. Then we'd have a few more teeth to make things a little safer while we figure out how to solve the problems we've finally realized we're face with. And at no extra cost for now, since the $$ will be coming from Wack-a-nut's contract.
"Rockwood Randy"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 04:46 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“According to Hansen, the regional rail system originally was designed as a unique experiment to encourage easy access.”
Yea, and that’s great and wonderful in the post 60’s era way of thinking, but things have changed markedly in America! The unique experiment IS OVER! It’s a failure in today’s America!
“Hansen also said eliminating Fareless Square might hurt the economy in the Lloyd District by discouraging downtown shoppers from traveling there.”
In other words, fareless square is here to stay.
“Metsger said he expects real action from TriMet, however. He warns the Legislature might not give the agency any more state money if it is not satisfied with the plan it receives next year. For Metsger, the issue is personal. He represents portions of Gresham, where Chilcote was injured. And, as Metsger said at the Tuesday meeting, he is afraid to ride MAX at night.”
Finally the state legislature starts excersing their leverage here! IT’S ABOUT TIME!
“The decision was driven by statistics showing that a large percentage of all crimes in Gresham are committed within a quarter-mile of the MAX line.”
There are plenty of light rail supporters who refuse to acknowledge this whatsoever.
““A lot of the hooliganism and thuggery that goes on in the back of a train is never actually reported to anybody, but it causes a great deal of angst to those people who have to endure it,” said Jim Fowler, a member of the executive board of the Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 757,”
AMEN!
“Hansen admitted that TriMet has safety problems.”
UNBELIEVABLE!
“Every potential passenger needs to feel safe to ride the system, and we are not there,” Hansen said.”
DOUBLE UNBELIEVABLE!
“During the hearing, Hansen said that the basic design of the MAX system contributes to the problems.”
DUH, and how long did it take him to figure this out?
““The stations were designed to be part of the city, to be part of the streetscape,” Hansen said.”
LOL!!LOL!!! I can’t even stop laughing!
“And Fareless Square creates enforcement problems, Hansen said”
LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!
“This article confirms my worst fears..... Fred Hansen is not going to do anything just look at how he wiggles and worms his way out of the saftey/security questions. He claims it may not even be possible to ensure that everyone pays a MAX fare??”
YEP!
“You can be more cost-effective by having roving staff that deboards at a station, patrols the station until the next train arrives, boards that train, etc., in a circuit."
I happen to agree with that. A visible presence is all that is needed here!
GREAT ARTICLE TRIB! Your paper is definitely #1 in coverage on this issue! And your stories are clear, comprehensive, and concise.
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 04:53 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Oregon Senate transportation chair Rick Metsger (DINO-Welches), whose district also covers part of Gresham, is quoted today in the Portland Tribune demanding TriMet to eliminate Fareless Square ostensibly to reduce crimes.
Metsger's argument does not follow logic. Here's another example of political red herring and fallacy so common in American politics.
Metsger's argument: Fareless Square makes it easy for people to evade fares, thus contributes to violent crimes in Gresham.
Metsger's fallacy and my rebuttal:
Fareless Square covers downtown Portland and Lloyd District. If Metsger is correct, most of the crimes aboard TriMet vehicles should have occurred within this area. The fact is that reported crimes in recent weeks have occurred in the eastern Multnomah County, specifically Gresham. The reason for this has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do directly with fare evasion or existence of the Fareless Square. The real reason for increase in crimes is the gentrification of the inner Portland and resulting shifting of the low-income and ethnic minorities population from the traditional North Portland and downtown urban core to the far Northeast (Parkrose), far Southeast (east of 82nd Avenue to Rockwood) and to Gresham. Priced out of the redeveloped central city, these people have been pushed to East County, and along with them went demoralized youth and gangsters. To this date, social services serving the low-income and homeless population are still concentrated in downtown Portland and Central Eastside.
If Metsger is right, fare collection is the panacea for the crime problem (and even terrorism). Gresham mayor Shane Bemis, however, notes that many such crimes occur in areas surrounding the MAX stations and as such the current TriMet security system is inadequate in preventing such crimes. Except for Sunset, Washington Park, Hollywood, 60th and 82nd stations no proof of fare payment is required to be on the boarding platform or around a MAX station, and none of these stations are in Gresham.
It is appalling to notice how quickly Mr. Metsger panders to the not-in-my-backyard middle-class special interest. The City of Sandy (Metsger's turf) also provides a free public transit but he is not demanding Sandy Area Metro to stop that service. All this talk of ending Fareless Square, increasing fines for fare evasion, blah, blah, blah, is just about scapegoating the poor and the homeless population, who daily rely on TriMet for their basic living necessities. Mr. Metsger probably does not even ride MAX for commuting -- after all there is no public transit between Welches and Salem -- in fact I think he drives around in his nice, fossil fuel guzzling SUV. So don't tell the Tribune reporter it's a "personal issue" and he won't feel safe to ride the MAX.
I reiterate this fact: Fare revenues only account for 16 percent of TriMet's income. Administration of the fare system, including the printing and sales of tickets and passes, salaries of fare inspectors, cost of prosecuting fare evasion cases in court, purchase and maintenance of hundreds of fare boxes and TVMs and associated utility and supplies expenses, take up most of that money. If TriMet's aim is to reduce driving and road congestion, there must be an even greater incentive for suburban commuters to abandon their cars and ride the public transit; what is better incentive than an all-free (100 percent tax-funded) public transit anyone can ride without hassle? In downtown all sorts of people from all economic classes ride the MAX and Portland Streetcar precisely because of this, and as a result the system is vibrant and safe.
If Metsger, Fred Hansen and others are really committed to a safe TriMet, the best solution is to eliminate all fares and instead finance TriMet by percentage of road and highway budgets (i.e., gasoline tax, car registration fees, etc.) in addition to the current payroll tax (which is vulnerable to recession and thus unreliable). Stop chasing after the poor who cannot afford bus fares (which keeps going up even though it's way too expensive for a low-income person already) and use the resources wisely to fight real crimes.
"Sarah"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 05:01 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Why isnt MAX considering a modern tracking hi-def camera system? Thses cameras can be tied into the driver so he can see what is going on and to the nearby police cruisers. Whenever there is a problem signified by loud noises the cams zero in on the sound and track it while the nearby police are watching. A high crime town in NJersey uses this system and their crime has fallen by 90%!
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 06:15 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
As a Gresham resident, I say eliminate the east-side MAX line all together.
As for the elimination of fareless square, I think it should be eliminated as part of a solution. But it certainly, as stated, will NOT eliminate Gresham's problems. It is a start-fix to the overall problem.
That's my two cents, for what it is worth.
"traver"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 06:56 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
yeah SARAH
thats the answer.....provide free transportation like we already do to illegals,gang members, and other low life drains on our society......
We already do that and its not working, a huge percentage of riders on max dont pay... thats a total joke why should i pay to transport scum around the portland metro area so they can deal drugs and commit various crimes???
"Todd Portland"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 06:58 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"As a Gresham resident, I say eliminate the east-side MAX line all together."
This has a less than 0% chance of happening!
""
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 07:09 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
It is a total myth that MAX is a conduit for criminals. MAX has been around for 21 years out to Gresham and this rise in crime has only been a recent problem in Gresham. Gresham crime is more a function of Gresham's changing demographis NOT MAX! In fact all suburbs in America are undegoing a change in demographis because of the high number of small cheap houses and cheap apartments.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 07:14 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Wilbur
Is there any way that transporting these low life losers that commit the crimes for free on Max helps lead to crime in Gresham?? think about who rides Max especially after dark and tell me this is not he case....
Get real
"todd portland"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 07:32 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Most of the MAX crimes are occuring at 162nd and Burnside MAX station and further out which is where a lot of them live. If you look at a crime map crime is fairly evenly spread out in Gresham and east Portland with no particular concentration around MAX! So it is as MAX and many others say a perception and handy scapegoat to blame MAX.
And as far as safety goes, there is no safer way to travel than MAX considering that there has never been a passenger death on MAX yet in 21 years of operation while there have probably been hundreds of local fatal car accidents during that time. In other words riding MAX is infinitely safer than driving!
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 07:59 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“If Metsger, Fred Hansen and others are really committed to a safe TriMet, the best solution is to eliminate all fares and instead finance TriMet by percentage of road and highway budgets “
Didn’t your mother ever tell you that taking LSD creates hallucinations?
“Why isnt MAX considering a modern tracking hi-def camera system? Thses cameras can be tied into the driver so he can see what is going on and to the nearby police cruisers.”
What the hell? Two people using LSD at the same time?
“In other words riding MAX is infinitely safer than driving!”
I got a better idea, since flying is the safest way to travel, we have planes instead of trains….....
’now leaving gateway for Hollywood, please have your boarding pass ready’
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 08:17 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"I got a better idea, since flying is the safest way to travel, we have planes instead of trains"
Nonsense! Trains are much safer than flying. Jet fuel being made from oil and so the big Oil lobby doesnt want you to know that though. Big oil propaganda and power is why America's train system has fallen so far behind the rest of the developed world.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 08:32 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
" got a better idea, since flying is the safest way to travel, we have planes instead of trains…....."
But how do we catch a plane to the airport? :-)
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 08:34 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Wilbur
You are not the sharpest tool in the shed are you??
Maybe we should just all ride bikes or horses that would be safe and would not burn any fossil fuels!!
Get real people drive cars, real cities have real roads and freeways not like this joke of a city.... MAX is a joke and a drain on the local economy and a drain to tax payers....
MAX is not safe and getting people to actually pay a fare is very much needed.. why should we as tax payers pay to shuttle around criminals and others for free??
Get real, doubt anything will happen after reading the response from FRED HANSEN he should be gone. we need change and we need people like you Wilbur out of goverment here... we can not survive as a city with max and bicycles.... MAX and tri-met as a whole is a waste of money
"Ronald"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:24 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Wilbur do you know how much it costs to run max a mile? It's cheaper to run my gas hog of a truck per mile and my truck doesn't shut down when it get's snowy or icey. That $1.50ish fair to ride max will move it about 20 feet and for that same $1.50ish my truck will move me some thing like 5 miles it's "max" just a big sucking hole for money.
"Dodge Ram"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:26 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Ronald and other MAX haters. You are wrong on all counts Ron. The price of oil has gone up 50% in the past year alone!
MAX runs on electricity and will become increasingly important as oil and gas continue to skyrocket. Indeed it might be the only thing that saves Gresham and other far-out suburbs from becoming a ghost town in the future.
MAX has not had ONE passenge fatality in 21 years while hundreds have been killed driving in Portlands roads.
In fact the Air Force base in my hometown has a highway entrance sign that warns, "You are now entering the most dangerous place on earth. Please drive safely"
So get real Ron. MAX is vastly superior in every way and should be greatly expanded.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:35 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Actually, "Dodge Ram", TriMet records that operating costs per boarding ride in FY2006 where $1.52 for rail and $2.58 for bus. (Of course, a single transit journey can include multiple boardings. The system average of boardings per originating ride is about 1.27.) Passenger revenue collected on a boarding-ride basis was 80 cents for rail and 66 cents for bus, with the overall subsidy being $0.72 for rail and $1.92 for bus.
Light rail passenger-miles per boarding ride were about 4.24, so the $1.50 value you quote in fact moves the train about 264 times further than you claim.
Nice try.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:38 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"But how do we catch a plane to the airport? :-)"
We take the plane to the plane Bob R!
"So get real Ron. MAX is vastly superior in every way and should be greatly expanded."
Yea but how many times do we get hit up for spare change in our cars? And how many times do we hear the word F**K over and over in our cars? And how many times do we watch as the wretched drunks sit next to us and stink up OUR CARS!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:45 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Max is the answer.... no more roads and lets build a max only bridge to milwaukie from downtown..oh wait we are already doing that!!
Everyone will ride max no one will drive in the future???
Get real!!
Oh by the way wilbur how many people have been killed by max??? lots there have been probably hundreds that have been run over by max in its 21 years... its not the long term answer and not safe... i for on am tired of paying taxes for a system where hardly anyone pays a fare to ride .... get real
"sam"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:49 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"Passenger revenue collected on a boarding-ride basis was 80 cents for rail and 66 cents for bus, with the overall subsidy being $0.72 for rail and $1.92 for bus.
Light rail passenger-miles per boarding ride were about 4.24, so the $1.50 value you quote in fact moves the train about 264 times further than you claim."
BOB R, HOW IS IT THAT YOU SEEM TO KNOW EVERY LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT EVERYTHING?
:-#
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:50 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
AL M -You poor little thing. Such delicate ears. Go tell it for your shrink. BOO!
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:52 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"Oh by the way wilbur how many people have been killed by max??? lots there have been probably hundreds that have been run over by max in its 21 years..."
B-I-N-G-O !!!!!!
give that man a ceeeeegar!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:53 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
oh wilbur;
Dost thou meanest such evil unto others, woe is you, for the devil hath taken over thy spirit!
:->
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 09:56 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sam-MAX hitting cars is the fault of the car DRIVERS 100% of the time! And where do you think all the greatest cities would be without their mass transit trains and subways. NYC has had theirs for the past 100 years. Dont be such a simple minded countryboy Sam. Think FUTURE.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:01 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Al -
I know how to look up references, and I'm not too lazy to comment before checking Google. :-)
Al asked: "Yea but how many times do we get hit up for spare change in our cars?"
Almost every time I come to a red light at a few particular freeway off-ramps. At least they aren't nearly as aggressive here as in LA or Chicago.
Sam said: "there have been probably hundreds that have been run over by max in its 21 years..."
Nope. There have indeed been incidents of people being hit by trains (not always the train's fault), but it is nowhere near "hundreds".
I once found a Wall Street Journal article from 1999 (link currently not working) which states 15 fatalities, several of which were people walking on fenced, off-limits sections of tracks or possible suicides. Not a good number, but nowhere near "hundreds".
- Bob R.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:04 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Wilbur -
Be careful not to overstate your arguments, or the nay-sayers will latch on to irrelevant side-arguments at won't let go.
In at least one instance, a MAX operator was found at fault for colliding with a motor vehicle. In that case, it was a fire truck in Hillsboro which crossed the MAX tracks with signal priority. The MAX operator used to all the signals changing in sync with the train on that particular stretch, and was apparently unaware that emergency vehicles could interrupt the sequence once the train was moving.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Wilbur
im actualy talking about the max running over pedestrians...
Max is not the future, its just not its a joke...
NYC subway has been around for a 100 years or more but the city is built around it...Portland is not...
They do a really funny thing there in NYC too...they make the passengers pay before they get on the subway and the actually have police.... not minimum wage losers (wack-in-hut) looking for a free paycheck acting as security....
MAX is great for workers traveling to downtown to work during the day.... at night it give free and easy transit for the scum of the earth to travel freely and commit crimes and hassle paying customers...
MAX will never be the answer....most have to drive to a park and ride anyways....
GET REAL
"sam"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:10 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sam et al- You MAX whiners ought to get out of your caves sometime. MAX has been praised and awarded around the nation and no matter how much you whine about it many cities are planning or building theirs due to our success. With oil going up by the week its only a matter of time that the personal car will be dead. If there is another oil embargo or disruption like in the 70's expect gas to go to $10+ a gallon with very long lines at the gas station. That could happen next week. So quitcher bitchin. MAX will save the day.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sam wrote: "MAX will never be the answer....most have to drive to a park and ride anyways..."
Sam -
TriMet has fewer than 10,000 parking spaces throughout its entire system (not just MAX), and that includes all the spaces operated in partnership with private lot owners.
The system has about 75,000 _originating_ rides per weekday (these are one-way journeys that include every transfer taken to complete the trip). Even if we assume that every park and ride space fills up every weekday (they don't) with a solo roundtrip commuter, that only accounts for, at most, a quarter of originating rides.
So, even stretching the statistics this far, your claim of "most" is completely invalid.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:23 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Yeah bob and people never park on public streets and the take the max because the park and ride is too full....
portland is so pedestrian friendly it makes it sooo easy to walk to the max and get on....
with all of your google skills have you ever heard the saying "dont trust everything you read". i hope your statistics are true...too bad you dont have to pay to ride MAX... that would be nice if MAX could actually at least tread water money wise, but with this current administration it wont....
I for one cant wait until drug dealers, illegal aliens and gang members will be able to have a FREE and easy transit option (MAX) out to clackamas county....
YA MAX.... what a great option...
"sam"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:37 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“Almost every time I come to a red light at a few particular freeway off-ramps. At least they aren't nearly as aggressive here as in LA or Chicago.”
LOL!!LOL!! What are you doing here Bob R, how do you have time to comment over here when your hands (and head) are already full over at the transport blog!?
I think MAX is good, but all the investment should not be going exclusively into it! We don’t need more max right now, we need improved bus service.
Max is NOT, I repeat, N-O-T fun to ride. I know, I ride it everyday, and I DO NOT LIKE IT!
I have no choice however.
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:49 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sam-theyre moving out that way anyway because of the cheap rent NOT MAX! And it will become cheaper and cheaper due to the suburban overbuilding boom and credit bust.
Crime is rapidly rising in even new subdivisions nationwide because the owners are so desperate theyll rent to anyone for cheap.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
And fellow bloggers, don't even think your going to win a factual debate with Bob R, its not possible!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:52 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sam -
You make assumptions about me which are incorrect, and therefore you win no allies to your cause.
You write: "too bad you dont have to pay to ride MAX..."
Well, Sam, actually I pay every single time I ride MAX with an individually-purchased ticket. (Except at those times when both TVMs at a station are broken, and you can bet TriMet hears about it from me when that happens.) I also pay TriMet taxes directly as a small-business owner.
I have advocated for a long time for increased staff presence and security, and increased fare enforcement on MAX. I have spoken out at public meetings about security and have spoken directly with TriMet staff. Even though I am a strong supporter of transit, I do recognize that there are flaws in the system which need to be corrected.
That being said, some of the comments in this discussion are blowing things way, way out of proportion. There's plenty of room for philosophical and political disagreement, but can we at least try and stick to the facts instead of needless hyperbole?
As for the actual boarding counts, I have received stop-by-stop counts from TriMet (this information is a matter of public record) and I've compared stops which I can easily observe close-to-home with the numbers TriMet has provided and they match up pretty well. (In fact, for the stop directly outside my home, I count a higher daily average than TriMet does.)
Regarding people parking on public streets, I am aware that it happens. I've personally counted over a dozen or so regular commuters parking near the station in our neighborhood on a regular basis. (NE 60th) That's on just one side of the freeway, so assuming the count is similar on the other side, that means about 25-35 people each day. Not a huge factor, and only about 2-3% of the boardings at our station.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:57 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
I think Al can back me up that I have previously advocated in other forums for increased staff presence and increased identification of real and perceived security risks.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:59 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
WILBUR....always remember this:
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE,
alas;
Max doesn't commit crime, people commit crime,
ergo;
If there are no guns then nobody gets killed, AND, if there is no max there is no crime!
GET IT?
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 10:59 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Al says: "If there are no guns then nobody gets killed, AND, if there is no max there is no crime!"
Al - This thing you have going with Wilbur has me completely lost at this point. Score for you. :-)
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 11:00 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Yes Bob R has indeed advocated for that position, and also, he NEVER writes anything unless he has researched it fully!
THATS WHY I HATE HIM!
(kidding Bob R!)
*:o)
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 11:02 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
LOL!!
Alright, the master is stumped!
>bows to Bob R<
"AL M"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob im not here to win allies i could care less about that....
im here to tell you MAX sucks plain and simple!!
i pay taxes directly to max as well and there is no excuse--YOU RIDE, YOU PAY!! no exceptions!!
im glad you speak up in town hall meetings etc.. but dont you think its weird that nothing is being done to fix concerns/problems on max??
dont you think its about time trimet steps up and addresses these issues??
Thats all i want maybe max will never be the answer for everyone, but maybe just maybe they will enforce the rules they have in place (no smoking on max property for one) and make it safe for the general public??
at least then i can feel a little better about being taxed to subsidize transportation for others.
"sam"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 11:10 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob R. there is a widespread false perception that MAX is CAUSING incresed crime in the suburbs. MAX is not causing the influx of crime, it is the conditions of the deteriorating suburbs themselves and the attendant decreasing rent associated with that. This phenomenon is happening nationwide. Cheap housing and apts with no sidewalks built in amonst car dealers and cheap strip malls is not a pleasant way to live. That's why I live in inner Portland. My commute is only 5 minutes to boot! Good night all.
"Wilbur"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 11:14 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sam: "im here to tell you MAX sucks plain and simple!!"
Well, that's your subjective opinion, and I guess I'm here to say you're wrong. :-)
Sam: "i pay taxes directly to max as well and there is no excuse--YOU RIDE, YOU PAY!! no exceptions!!"
I agree to a point, and that point is where the fare collection process becomes cost prohibitive or inconvenient to legitimate riders. (Barriers, waiting lines, costs of collection exceeding the cost of fare evasion), of course with security and visibility concerns factored in.
Sam: "im glad you speak up in town hall meetings etc.. but dont you think its weird that nothing is being done to fix concerns/problems on max??"
I'm disappointed that TriMet didn't see things my way, but I must be honest in saying that I didn't make it my #1 issue, either, and there weren't a lot of people showing up with these concerns at the meetings I attended.
Clearly, it took press attention to make TriMet take notice, and perhaps they'll learn something from that (besides just taking a defensive posture.) However, I also think the situation is being more than a tad overblown. The actual risk of harm (and clearly some people have had serious harm) is still rather low (but it could be lower) -- it's the bad behavior and lack of visible staff presence which leads to a perception of danger.
Sam: "dont you think its about time trimet steps up and addresses these issues??"
Yes, and I hope they do as a result of all this. It's also a matter of related agencies coming up with the necessary funds to provide more personnel.
Sam: "Thats all i want maybe max will never be the answer for everyone, but maybe just maybe they will enforce the rules they have in place (no smoking on max property for one) and make it safe for the general public??"
Well, that's what I would like, too. That's a more reasonable position than "MAX sucks plain and simple." Heck, I think if they enforced the "no smoking" rule at my station with fines every time, they could fund half of TriMet with that kind of revenue. (Just kidding.)
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 11:21 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"Sam: "im here to tell you MAX sucks plain and simple!!"
>>>> AND I AGREE! I have a lifetime of transit riding behind me (never drove) and I know bad transit when I see it.
"Nick theoldurbanist"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Well all this all nice, but at the end of the day, MAX is semi Okay to ride for the morning and night comuters. If you ride afternoon and night, you should plan on watching your back, and be prepared for anything. This is why I NEVER ride MAX ever! I will just drive and pay to park, my safety and that of my family is worth more than a trip on MAX. This debate can go on for years, but in the end the people that are most at risk are those who do not have another option. TriMet and METRO need to step up and make this a safe transportation system for everyone. Who pays and who does not is just one symptom of the overall problems with TriMet. MAX as a whole needs to be looked at, it should be a system that anyone (Rich, poor, American or "tourist") should be able to use and not be a victim of crime.
"Some one come up with a fix! Quit your whinning!"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 01:14 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Well, I've heard pro-MAX fans argue that MAX is cheaper to operate than buses.
GUESS WHAT? Any operational cost advantage over buses is going right down the drain now, with all this additional security. All these police officers do not come cheap, you know.
When you factor in the cost of operation of separate, proprietary maintence facilities for rail vehicles on top of this, MAX is no bargain. And not to mention the lost opportunity cost of potential ridership due to the additional transfers MAX involves.
MAX was a big mistake and should have never been built. Portland does not need rail.
"Nick theoldurbanist"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 01:44 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Nick, as well you should know, "When you factor in the cost of operation of separate, proprietary maintence facilities for rail vehicles on top of this, MAX is no bargain.", these costs are already factored in to the operations costs reported to the federal government and to the public by TriMet, both for rail and for buses.
If you wanted to make an argument about capital costs amortized over time, I'd be listening, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 04:10 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
if the police would patrol these max areas better and forget about writing speeding tickets then max riders would feel a lot more safer on max and at max stations.if the police have the time to pull people over for speeding then they have more than enough time and resources to patrol max and maxstations better.
"matthew vantress"
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 04:59 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Have you ever seen a transit strike? Its not pretty.
Transit, bus and rail, is the only thing that keeps the three county area from dissolving into complete gridlock for 6 - 8 hours per day. You say but it is gridlock now. Oh no, you have no idea how bad it would be.
Transit is there to provide transportation for commuters, the poor & the infirm. None of these people deserve to be preyed on by scum. We need armed security who enforce civility.
"Bernie G."
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 12:22 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Let's have a transit strike and watch how safe the city will become.
"BusMallBob"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 12:53 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
lets just have Rudy G come over from NYC and clean up our city............He could teach Potter a few things.
New York City has a lot going on that PDX is lacking.....good police force with laws to help , clean and safe subways, etc.
"KW"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:18 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Transit strike?
Hmmmmm?
I sorta like that idea!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:25 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
transit strike maybe just the thing we need to make trimet take notice!! let get this going, then they will have to do something!!
TRANSIT STRIKE 08
PUT TRI MET IN IT's PLACE AND MAKE THEM TAKE NOTICE
"adam"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:45 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Transit strike? How about a transit boycott?!?! Oh yeah, that would only work if everyone had another option besides public transportation, which many don't. Those who are at the mercy of Tri-Met must ride it whether it is safe or not.
I applaud Rick Metsger's pluck to address the issue for his consituents, regardless of what he personally drives, SUV or otherwise. Getting the state and their attendant checkbook involved may be a key element to getting TriMet and Fred Hanson to take some meaningful action. So far nothing else has worked. Fred Hanson's "summit" is just lip service. He might as well be masterbating about the issue for the effectiveness we are gaining.
If you or I had a monopoly on a necessary product that was unsafe, I would think we would fall under some sort of law or code. "Attractive nuisance" is the expression that comes to mind- like when my neighbor put in a pool but did not provide adequate fencing to prevent children from climbing in and possibly drowning. Having a two year old child at the time who desperately wanted to "go swimming", I was keenly aware of the danger. The neighbor was given a short period of time to properly fence his pool, or he would be fined so much per day by the city. I didn't wait for that- I put up my own fence ASAP to protect my child. But I digress...
The same logic as the attractive nuisance law should apply to transit. It is the only option available for some folks, so they are naturally "attracted" to use it, and if they are, they ought to be able to use it without thugs and losers intimidating, panhandling, or beating them (the "nuisance"), whether it is ON the train or at a platform. Since TriMet is not protecting riders adequately, they ought to be responsible for injuries and crime that occurs as a result of their negligence.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 06:44 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Max should be self supporting, at the fare box,
until it is, it is a failure.
Portland's Light Rail Death Rate per 100 million passenger-miles
http://www.debunkingportland.com/Transit/MAXSafetyChart.html
19 5/16/06 Catalino Salazar-Salgado, 51, of Portland died Sunday night after being hit by a MAX train
18 9/30/05 A 40-year-old woman struck and killed by a MAX train
17 8/3/04 a 47-year-old Southeast Portland man had safely exited a MAX when his power wheelchair inexplicably rolled
between the train's two cars
16 6/24/03 A 16-year-old Gresham boy was killed Monday night when he was hit by a MAX train
10/10/02 A woman leaped to her death from the Vista Bridge onto TriMet light-rail tracks
15 2/9/02 A man got caught between moving MAX train cars near the PGE Park
14 1/6/02 Mark Russell Arthur, died when he was struck by a MAX light-rail train in Gresham,
13 10/21/01 A MAX train hit and killed a man lying on the light-rail tracks
12 4/10/01 died from massive injuries to his head
11 10/12/99 A 41-year-old Beaverton man was struck and killed by a MAX train
10 8/3/99 A light-rail train struck and killed a pedestrian during
09 6/15/99 A light-rail train struck and killed a youth
08 6/8/99 ..was killed when he was struck by an eastbound light-rail train
0 7 9/20/98 rode bike into side of Westside train. Died five days later.
06 6/22/92 Pedestrian walking in ROW 82nd Avenue EB
05 2/26/92 A 40-year-old transient was killed by a MAX train.
04 3/23/91 the third person killed in by MAX's
03 1/16/91 Collision w/ vehicle MLK
02 1/1/90 Pedestrian walking in ROW 21 & Banfield
01 7/28/86 Pedestrian walking in ROW Halsey & Banfield
see web site and links to the news story
http://www.debunkingportland.com/Transit/MaxKills1998-2006-04.htm
"It's time for Max users tio pay their fare shair"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 08:52 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"MAX has not had ONE passenge fatality in 21 years" This is a joke, right? MAX has run over and killed at least 3 people outside the train in the last 7 years. In addition the amount of altercations per mile,not always fatal but counts none the less, is 1 in 10,000 passanger travel miles. This is the most violent transportation system in the US - period end of story.
The thing is a lot of us have been bringing up the violance and safty iossue with members of the MAX system for years and only now is the problem being addressed and not by MAX - Gesham.
The entire system as envisioned was never really intended to move people. If it was it would look more like Bonn, or Cleavland, or San Fransico, LA, New York or chicago.
MAX is supposed to look pertty, which it does, not function with speed, safety, and convienance at an afordable price, which it does not.
If left to the convention of MAX there wouldn't be either security, which can't protect you, or fare checkers, which can give yoiu a ticket but not much else.
The "Flaw" of MAX is in the leadership, which is non existant.
"Sherman"
(email verified)
Sat, Nov 17, 2007 at 03:49 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
So let's keep dropping billions of dollars into a total failure of a mass transit system which does nothing but serve as a mode of transportation for criminals, drug dealers and violent mentally ill people. What a waste of money......MAX is a total failure, a disaster and a disgrace to our city. I say, take the MAX line out and widen some freeways!!! It is 2007!! Let's get out of the 70's!!
"Father Joe"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 01:01 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Joe - You mean the 1880's this "technology" is from the end of the 19th century. Moving Freight by rail and truck is efficient, moving passengers by public transportation like commodities of freight - like cattle - is only effective if everyone is traveling to the same destination not throughout a metropolitan city. If bus and MAX destination were limited to point to point and fan out to other destination from those hubs I'll bet a higher percentage would ride. At the hubs offer more choices like taxi, rental cars, park & ride lots, as well as buses/trains to other hubs. That would serve the public need not the political agenda of eliminating automobile transportation.
"mark"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:35 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“MAX is a total failure, a disaster and a disgrace to our city. I say, take the MAX line out”
LOL!! A little excessive, don’t ya think?
Once TRIMET deals with the security issue things will get back to normal operations!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 04:50 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Max is not safe.Max is dangerous. half of the people who ride max are street scum the rest of them are Rosies raiders who shoot first and lie latter.If you dont like it stay off of it and you will live longer
"BERNIE"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 04:59 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
As for the Sandy area free busses that were mantioned above, they must be providing adequate security. We sure don't hear the same complaints about SAM as we do about MAX. What is Sandy doing right that Tri-Met is not doing?
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 05:50 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Fred Hanson, in his infinite wisdom, has decided that adequate compensation for Mr. Laurie Lee Chilcote, the 71-year-old gentleman who was savagely beaten in Gresham after leaving a MAX train, is to give him a lifetime free pass to ride Tri-Met. Is he KIDDING?!?!?! Unbelievable! It is so insulting that it is hard to contemplate.
If Tri-Met had provided an adequate number of fare inspectors, the punk who beat Mr. Chilcote in the head with a baseball bat would likely have been precluded from boarding the train and the incident would never have happened.
And now Fred Hanson is going to have a "summit"?!?! How long must we wait for that? Will he also form a sub committee to study what suggestions were made at the summit? Maybe a sub-sub committee will then study what recommendations the sub committee came up with? Then he can take that back to an advisory panel, who can throw it back to the sub committee. How long will Fred Hansen contemplate his navel before DOING SOMETHING?!?!? We all know what is needed- adequate security. Just do it, for Christ's sake.
I suggest that Tri-Met change its logo to an ostrich with its head in the sand. It would be more honest and more accurate, too.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 06:03 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“What is Sandy doing right that Tri-Met is not doing?”
Sandy population in : 8,286
Portland population 537,081
Not in the same league, can’t compare the two cities!
“Laurie Lee Chilcote, the 71-year-old gentleman who was savagely beaten in Gresham after leaving a MAX train, is to give him a lifetime free pass to ride Tri-Met.”
Is that true, how did you find that out?
“Then he can take that back to an advisory panel, who can throw it back to the sub committee.”
They sure do like to have meetings don’t they?
Let’s see how this all ends, things may change for the better here when the dust settles!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 07:32 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
People, max has little to do with the problems that occur in Gresham. TRUST ME!. If you look at the areas the max runs through. LOW INCOME, HIGH DENSITY HOUSING. Look at how the crime rate has evolved throughout the last five years or so in Gresham. The columbia villa was torn down in North Portland and where do you think the miscreants of society moved too? Very good, GRESHAM!! Up and down the max line between 102 and 162nd/Burnside. So if you think all these ideas you are blogging are going to help you are sadly mistaken. Get rid of the low income housing up and down the line and you will have a better max to ride!
"problem solver"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:07 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
PROBLEM SOLVER HAS MADE A GOOD POINTS! MAYBE THE MAYOR OF GRESHAM SHOULD LOOK AT WAYS TO KICK PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOUSING IF THEY CONTINUALLY COMMIT CRIMES IN THEIR NEIGHBOROOD. IF YOU START TAKING AWAY THEIR FREE LIVING MAYBE THEY WILL THINK TWICE ABOUT COMMITING CRIMES
"JOE FROM GRESHAM"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:12 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
We need affordable housing, but Joe is right, there must be some responsibilities assumed by those taking advantage of it. It's a heck of a thing to subside someone and have them abuse the privelege. There are surely good people in there who do appreciate it, but what we tend to see are the miscreants. Yes, we got a lot of the dregs after Columbia Villa was razed, and even before, when the police over there got serious about cracking down on crime. The apartments on SE 190th are as bad as CV ever was. It has been like that for many years, but MAX has degenerated in just the past few years.
I read in the Tribune's online site that Mr. Chilcote was going to be given a lifetime boarding pass. If it were me, I think I'd have to take a pass on that free pass. It's a little like giving a fellow a free pit bull after having been mauled by one, huh?
Yes, populations are vastly different between Gresham/Portland and Sandy, but Sandy's bus system is completely fareless and it does come into Gresham. You'd think their busses that come into Gresham might get some spillover, but I guess gang bangers are not chomping at the bit to head out to the mountain, even if it is free. Or maybe they just don't know it is free.
I hope you are right, Al M, that changs is coming. We are due for some good news about the light rail.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
EVERYONE AGREES MASS TRANSIT IS IMPORTANT. BUT EVERYONE IS ONLY TALKING LIGHT RAIL. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BUS?
THEY USE THE SAME ROADS INSTEAD OF BUILDING THE MOST EXPESIVE ROAD IN THE CITY THAT MOVES THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE. THEY STOP WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE AND TAKES THEM TO WHERE THEY WANT TO GO. MAX IS GREAT FOR THE FEW THAT HAS A STOP CLOSE TO THIER HOUSE AND DROPS THEM WHERE THEY WANT TO GO. HOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD?
NEXT TIME YOU ARE SITTING IN A TRAFFIC JAM ON 84 NEXT TO THE POOR TRUCKER TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING DELIVERING YOUR TOFU AND LETTUCE LOOK OVER AT THAT EMPTY STRECH OF TRACK THAT CAN ONLY HAVE SO MANY TRAINS PER MINUTE SO THEY DON'T RUN INTO EACH OTHER.
WHY NOT A EXPRESS LANE FOR BUSES & TRUCKS?
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A CASE OF ROMAINE LETTUCE ON A MAX TRAIN? HOW DO YOU THINK THIS COUNTRY RUNS? HOW DO YOU GET YOUR FOOD?
HOW MUCH ENERGY DOES IT TAKE TO BUILD LIGHTRAIL?
HOW MUCH POLUTION FROM THE EQUIPEMENT NEEDED TO BUILD IT?
THEN YOU NEED TO BUILD MASIVE PARK & RIDE LOTS.
NEXT TO MY HOUSE THE PARK & RIDE IS A CHURCH PARKING LOT THAT ONLY GETS USED ON SUNDAY. NO GLOBAL WARMING TO BUILD A NEW LOT.
MAX CAUSES CONJESTION.
INTERSTATE WAS FOUR LANES, NOW ITS TWO.
TRAFFIC STOPS FOR MAX AT CROSSINGS INSTEAD OF BLENDING IN.
TRAFFIC IS PUSHED ON OTHER STEETS FOR TRAIN ONLY STREETS.
MONEY GOES TO LIGHT RAIL THAT SHOULD GO TO IMPROVING ROADS.
I OWN A BUSINESS. I PAY EVERY PAYROLL A BIG CHUNK OF CASH FOR MASS TRANSIT. MANY OF MY STAFF TAKE THE BUS. IT TAKES THEM TO THIER WORK. IT IS DEPENDABLE. IT HAS SOMEONE CHECKING FARES. EVERY BUS HAS A REAL PERSON THAT CAN AT LEAST CALL THE POLICE.
BUT BUSES AREN'T SEXY. THEY DON'T FEED CIVIC EGO THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO OUR CITY LEADERS.
SO LET'S CONTINUE WITH THE SAME BEHAVIOR AND EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS!
"SICK & TIRED"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:06 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob R what I posted about the coast of running max was MY opinion from what I have heard it don't pencil out and you said two funny things you say you got your numbers from tri/met you do know that big companies some times 'cook the books' "ENRON" to make it look good to the stock holders and subsidies "my" understanding is they get some of there money from the fed and state fuel tax granted a very small amount. As for max it's self they did not use there heads in the summer you cook like your in an oven and in the winter you need to ride from greasham to beaverton to warm up and they shut it down with a little bit of snow/ice when was the last time you heard of a compleat bus line getting shut down for bad weather.
"Dodge Ram"
(email verified)
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:38 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Hey Bob R.,
When exactly will the light rail capital construction costs be amortized?
It has been 21 years. Is the first stretch paid for?
BTW, does the 'cost', as calculated by TriMet, of the system include servicing the debt from the construction?
Normal accounting procedures in the private sector would require that the debt service be included.
Does TriMet?
"Chris"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 12:19 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
When we were a bus only city, Tri-Met could evaluate and re-evaluate loads, and make adjustments accordingly, at any time. As demand for use increased or decreased, busses could be added, dropped, and rerouted to meet the need. What a concept! We even had articulated busses for routes that had many riders. Remember "Bendy-busses"? There is not the flexibility with MAX that there is with busses. (Duh!)I caught a commuter bus to downtown that jumped on the Banfield at 181 and was much faster than MAX, but was pulled when MAX came online. Too bad for me and the other folks who rode it every weekday.
We got MAX after an attempt to secure federal transportaion dollars to build a new freeway to Mt. Hood was rejected. The only way to get those federal dollars was to build something like MAX, so it was done, regardless of whether it was the most effecient use of space and money or not. We are stuck with it, so the least that we should be getting is a safe ride: adequate security and fare inspectors. When officials from other cities come to Portland to see MAX, our "crewn jewel" I bet they are riding in a large group and doing so during daylight hours. Local officials will see to it that they don't see the underbelly of MAX.
Yes, it would be great if all of us got courageous and jumped up to defend eachother, but how many of us wonder if that punk will pull a gun and shoot us dead on the spot? I'm a mother- who will raise my children if I am killed? We have a thought like that and freeze up. So we stick our collective noses back in our collective books and hope the problem goes away. We, the riders, are not trained security professionals. It is Tri-Met's responsibility, first and foremost, to provide adequate security and fare inspectors. Just like it is great when volunteers go help out at schools, we cannot depend on them to teach our children, so we hire actual teachers. So it is with MAX- and riders would probably be more willing to step up to help eachother if they knew they were not going it alone.
As for Tri-Met taxes, they are no small bit of cash for any business, and businesses wind up passing that cost along to those they do business with, so we all pay one way or another. No one ever subsidized my small business, and I rather resented paying those taxes when my customers by and large did not use busses or Max to come to my business. I used to think it was only the Mafia that extorted money, but TriMet taxes changed my perspective.
In a perfect world, mass transit would enhance the livability of our community. It works in other cities. Fred Hanson has let TriMet fall apart, and Mary Foetsch then tries to spin the tale that all is well, that the only problems with public transportation are the communities they travel through. What a crock of manure.
Certainly I am not the only one who feels like I have fallen through the looking glass. I challenge Mary Foetsch to ride MAX all the way out to Gresham Station. Alone. After dark. It seems to me she could use a good dose of reality. She is not getting it from where she sits now. Fred Hanson could benefit from a ride after dark himself. What a couple of goobers.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 02:28 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“I hope you are right, Al M, that change is coming. We are due for some good news about the light rail.”
I’ll tell ya exactly what the problem has been here. While the issues regarding the max fixation are real, there has also been another organizational fixation.
The Americans with Disabilities Act! You have no idea how much management time and resource has been poured into this act, to serve the tiny minority of TRIMET customers, all at the expense of the majority of riders!
Between these two TRIMET fixations, the large majority of TRIMET customers have been largely ignored.
THE SH** WAS BOUND TO HIT THE FAN AND IT DID!
“I challenge Mary Foetsch to ride MAX all the way out to Gresham Station. Alone. After dark.”
W-O-W!! THAT, is a great idea!
How bout it Mary? If I were you I would take up the challenge, and have a news crew with you!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 03:59 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Of course have them in the other train car with you, not with you in person!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 04:00 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
DONT give Max any more help.MAX has spent millions and has NOTHING to show for it except destroy a firetruck in hillsboro its operators are just a mob of drunk drivers. Shut it down and save billions and give the tax payer a huge refund.
"BOB D. in beaverton"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 08:16 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
I've been taking public transportation for a year now - the bus, the MAX. I don't own a car because I cannot afford the insurance and maintenance yet.
I'm working at a job that doesn't really pay that much, but every month I set aside $76.00 to get a bus pass.
Then, I would find out that most of the people I ride with do not even pay the fare, and they even brag about that fact sometimes. Then, there would be news about inexcusable violence at the stations. Or if I were lucky, I'd get to witness unruly, loud, uncouth people making a fool of themselves on the bus or light rail. Or I would get hit for spare change by people who look drugged or drunk, words slurred and eyes all glassy.
One can only take so much. You've all stated figures, $ amounts and statistics. But it all boils down to the way the system is being managed.
It's really simple. Increased security presence might help deter the would-be criminals. No turnstiles please as that would be more costly to build. Hire more people to patrol stations and cars, and inspect/check fares. Hire better people to manage TRIMET and METRO. (We sure could use other people besides Mr.H there, I think.)
Surely, for a progressive City like Portland the financial people could work out a budget that would accommodate more employees? They could probably cut back on printing costs or advertising costs or those public relations materials they plaster all over the place. If the system runs smoothly, they won't need those marketing tactics to get people to ride. If they do it right, people will come. (paraphrasing "Field" here).
Just an ordinary citizen's thoughts.
"j"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 08:27 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
How can you cut cost for more police protection when
The Tri-Met transit system, has never come close to breaking even.
It's a failure as a good fast safe transit system and
it needs major subsides to do a substandard job.
Portland isn't progressive,
it is irresponsible with the taxpayers money.
That's how we got Max.
Tri-Met does not have to please it's customers ( or ordinary citizen's) because only 18 % of the money come from the fare box.
""It's time for Max users to pay their fare shair""
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 08:44 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Chris -
It is my understanding that for the entire light rail system, including recently-opened extensions, less than $95 million in construction bonds are outstanding. (This does not apply, I believe, to the currently under-construction green line.) Sorry, I don't have a link for you at this time.
A glance at the 1995 bond authority resolution from the legislature seems to imply a 10 year period for lottery-backed light rail construction bonds, but you'd probably have to look deeper into related statutes and the legislative history to be sure.
(I could just email TriMet for an answer, but it seems pretty clear that you wouldn't trust it, so I went looking for other sources.)
I also have a paper copy of the FY2008 TriMet budget which may shed more light on bond service payments.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 10:38 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Al M said, "THE SH** WAS BOUND TO HIT THE FAN AND IT DID!"
Agreed. Too bad it is not splattering Mary Foetsch and Fred "the emporer has no clothes" Hanson. The rest of us know the smell of failure when we smell it- what is wrong with those two?
So, Mary, how about it? Willing to take the night train out to my 'hood this Saturday night??? I'll meet you at the east end. If you make it that far.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Hi "Centennial neighbor"
I don't know about Ms. Fetsch (you spelled it wrong), but I'm willing to take the "night train" out your "'hood" this Saturday night.
Please name the departure station and scheduled time, and the destination station. I'll be happy to take a video log of the journey and report back.
If you'd like to ride along with me, perhaps I can help you with your fear.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 12:01 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob R.
You're comparing apples and watermelons now. She asked Mary Fetsch and not you to take the MAX. I think there's a big difference. I understand you want to be "Mr. Factoid" and split hairs with every statement uttered on this blog... Lighten up and quit ridiculing each and every statement.
"John Z"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 02:18 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Hi John Z -
I didn't ridicule "Centennial neighbor"'s statement, I offered to take the proposed journey.
If you felt that merely taking "Centennial neighbor" up on the offer amounts to ridicule, that probably says more about "Centennial neighbor"'s comment than me or you.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 02:21 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more unlikly MAX fixes
The question should be, would you want your kids, daughters or wife to ride the Max knowing you may be putting thnem in danger.
"I don't think so"
(email verified)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 11:24 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob R.,
Would the bond figures from any of the construction include all funds spent to build the light rail or only the construction bonds cost? As I recall, there have been massive amounts of state and federal funding in addition to any locally issued bonds. Shouldn't those be included in a discussion of light rail construction costs?
At the current rate of ridership and income, when will the system have paid for itself? All of the costs, including those free tax dollars?
And you are correct, I wouldn't trust figures obtained from TriMet to be anything more than a case study as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin if we get tiny little angels with extra small feet and a really big pin.
I will cut to the chase for you. If my memory from when this light rail nonsense started serves me correctly, the costs for construction will never be paid for by the system use charges. The only way that Neil and his band of merry men could sell this foolishness was to act as thought the state and federal tax dollars were free money, straight off the tree.
The Mt. Hood Freeway is looking like a better deal all the time.
"Chris"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 12:13 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob R.,
I am assuming from your name that you are a man. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I think it is a much different ride on MAX for a woman commuting alone at night (off-peak hours) than it is for a man commuting alone at the same time. My riding along with you, even if you were a woman, would negate the impact of the riding alone experience. (Did you miss my point entirely?!?!?) I may have spelled Tri-Met Mary's name wrong, but I think my point is valid and still stands.
Here's my counter offer: Put your mother or your adorable teenage daughter alone on a Saturday night train to 162 and Burnside- not the car with the conductor, the rear car, please- and let HER report back to me on HER experience.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 02:25 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"Centennial neighbor"
My response to your offer included making a video report, so other people could see the conditions on the train and judge for themselves. I did not miss your point.
I've been arguing for some time now that there is a problem with bad behavior on MAX, which leads to a public perception of a lack of safety, combined with genuine tragic incidents which further that perception.
What we are missing are statistics which show how safe or unsafe riding MAX or waiting at a station can be compared to other activities done in public, on a per-capita basis, and it seems that many people are conflating instances rude/noisy people on MAX (which is a problem that needs to be addressed) with the threat of physical harm.
"Bob R."
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 02:47 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
I moved out of Portland last August and came back up for a visit last weekend. I rode the MAX thinking that there would be more security. I didn't see a SINGLE guard the whole ride from downtown out to Hillsboro. To top it all off I heard the usual cursing and offensive smelling vagrants and even witenessed one gentlemen snort a line of something white of a mirror right on the train in broad daylight! Nothing has changed from what I can remember.... What a Mickey Mouse system y'all have up there!
""
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 05:01 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
“Agreed. Too bad it is not splattering Mary Foetsch and Fred "the emporer has no clothes" Hanson. The rest of us know the smell of failure when we smell it- what is wrong with those two?”
LOL!!LOL!!
Sheesh, there are some truly great lines in this blog!
“Please name the departure station and scheduled time, and the destination station. I'll be happy to take a video log of the journey and report back.”
BOB R!!! ALWAYS DA MAN!!
Bob R, your on, I’ll accompany you! We will meet some Saturday night at SKIDMORE FOUNTAIN, ride up to the rose quarter, get off, make videos, next train to Lloyd Center, make videos,then Hollywood, the 82nd, the 102nd, then 122nd, then Gresham!
I think MARY FETSCH AND FRED HANSON SHOULD DO THIS, BUT I AM WILLING TO DO IT WITH BOB R AND OUR COMBINED VIDEO CAMERA’S!
"AL M"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 05:13 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Sick and Tired - I beg to differ, Public Transit is not very important at least for the reasons TriMet has given us. 1. The small portion of the public that utilize public transportation and their financial contribution in taxes is negated by the total cost of TriMet. TriMet has inhibited economic growth by using money (taxes) that could have better served businesses by letting them keep more money for expansion and/or higher salary's - ergo more income taxes paid by individuals. 2. The investment made along the MAX Lines - by TriMet - does not necessarily facilitate the best use of land to facilitate high wage paying industrial jobs - only retail and commercial business - a storefront is not appropriate for most businesses - they are just the most visible. 3. Investment in public transportation projects, instead of Freeways, has not slowed neighborhood gentrification, as promised. There is definitely a case to be made that it has accelerated gentrification and divided neighborhoods socio-economically as well as geographically. So all of the "progressives out there who feel betrayed by 8 years of President Bush understand how all of the residents feel who don't support Light Rail and Smart Growth Planning. Those who evangelically support public transit are more dishonest and self serving than any group aside from the Nazi's in Germany.
"mark"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 06:33 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Out of curiosity, I phoned Fred Hanson's office today and asked if The Summit had been scheduled. As of today, it has not been scheduled. The associate who answered my call sounded weary, to say the least. I do not envy her! Last week, she (if it was the same person) was much more chipper and accomodating when I phoned to voice my concerns about Mr. Chilcote and asked if anything was going to be considered regarding more fare inspectors. Today I asked if public comments would be considered when making decisions about the safety of Tri-Met, and she told me that was something to be determined at the yet-to-be-held summit. I asked if she knew why it has taken this long to schedule a summit, and she said they were trying to get all of the related entities schedules accomodated. Then she pretty much headed me off, asking if I would like the address to send Fred Hanson my inquiries personally.
For any of you who have the energy and inclination to do so, Fred Hanson's phone number is:
503-962-4831
and the address is:
4012 SE 17th Ave.
Portland, OR 97202
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 06:35 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Bob R.,
Thanks for your clarification.
I would say that while it is dangerous to be many places late on a Saturday night, alone and a female, the need for a person to take public transportation might put them out at night when they otherwise might not choose to do so. Also, it seems to me that walking briskly down the sidewalk is not the same as standing waiting for a train or bus like a sitting duck.
For example, my friend's teenage daughter, who looks much younger than her 19 years, rides MAX back and forth to PSU. Going in the AM is not a problem as there are a good number of commuters- safety in numbers. However, when she rides home after a night class, she has encountered problems on the train. Unfortunately, her stop IS 162 and Burnside. She has been followed by creepy guys from the train on several occasions. Yes, she has a cell phone and calls for help, but it is still a crap shoot if someone can get to her before something happens. She must walk about 10 blocks alone and in the dark. Now, one or the other of her parents meets her at Gateway when they are able to do so. When they are not able to, she has to get off at 162 and Burnside and take her chances. I believe she has a right to have a safe ride without getting hassled or followed.
True, if you chase the creeps off, they will go somewhere else, and will still be creeps, but for Tri-Met to do nothing is not acceptable. It did not used to be like it is now. It has degenerated over the years. For Tri-Met to throw up its hands, shrug its shoulders and say the riders simply reflect the communities they pass through is a cop out. Even if the demographics have changed, I think revisiting the amount of security needed is still in order.
I believe that if there were a good number of fare inspectors, like there used to be, there would be a lot less creepy people on the trains, and therefore fewer creepy people who may follow this young lady. Having security at the stations themselves (rotating basis)would likely head off those who choose to congregate there, as it is certainly possible for someone who loiters to follow a rider, and not just a non-fare-paying thug disembarking the train.
I used to enjoy riding MAX, and did so for several years. What it has degenerated to is sad, and yet I think with enough encouragement, Tri-Met will come to understand that people in our area do care and do want a transportation system where they feel like they are valued and respected. Just because other places are dangerous does not mean MAX has to be.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 07:02 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
First of all. The turnstile plan, will not work. As stated above , what happens when it malfunctions? Someone would need to be there 24/7 to insure that the system works. I am a regular Max rider, Unfortunatly!! More police need to be at the actual stop. There is weed & cigerette smoking at this location as well as drug dealing. There have been drunks and gang activity at this location as well as 162nd ave stop. Prostittion and drug dealing occur not only on the 162nd platform but in front of CODA CRC clinic next to 162nd max. TRI MET - Spend the extra money and get police officers with guns and undercover and get rid of the issues!!You can ticket and ticket- homless, drug and alchol addicted dotn care about the fines as they get to go the Justice Center be warmer then outside and get a free soy bologna sandwich, wich they want!!
"SICK OF TRIMET & SCUM!!"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 07:15 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
To the individual who wrote:
"What a Mickey Mouse system y'all have up there!"
Frankly, I wish Disney WERE in charge of public transportation. The transportation systems in use at Disneyland and Walt Disney World are far, far more productive, more useful, more reliable, and less dangerous than in Portland. (Just TRY to walk near the Disneyland Railroad tracks!)
Not to mention that Disneyland is essentially a "car free community" save for the Omnibus and Fire Engine that travels down Main Street U.S.A., and the parade floats. Portland's mass transit system is hardly a "Mickey Mouse Operation", because such is actually a compliment!
"Erik"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 07:21 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Unless and until the fares paid by customers are the bread and butter for Tri-Met, they do not have much motivation to see that fares are actually being paid, and will have little regard for the safety concerns of those who are actually paying the fare. They get theirs no matter what.
As long as Tri-Met is suckling at the teat of government hand-outs/taxes/subsidies, they are not beholden to the paying passenger. For them, it's a gimme no matter how few fare inpectors they have, and no matter how bad crime gets on and near light rail stations, busses, and transfer points. They could run empty trains on the same schedule and be no worse off. No wonder Fred Hanson is playing dumb about safety issues. It is no skin off his teeth.
Let's tie his pay to the safety and comfort of those who pay to ride the MAX and see if he suddenly sings a different tune. Performance-based pay for Fred Hanson and Mary Fetch, too.
"proponent of performance-based pay"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 11:10 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
I wonder what Fred Hanson makes a year?
"curious"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 11:12 AM
Obtain a Oregon Concealed Handgun License
Once again, this article on Tri-met confirms that the government will not protect you. I encourage every lawfully allowed person to obtain an Oregon Concealed Handgun License. Train for the worst, but run away if you can first. None of the steps in the above article will protect you from crime. Police Officers and cameras will only record the crime against you. You are solely responsible for protecting yourself. The signs indicating a "free zone" or more lights will not protect you.
The article cites how the system is different because it is open system free of fare gates. The San Diego trolley is built the same way and has a lot more security officers. They actively write tickets and have limited arrest powers if I am correct.
"CMoore"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 11:22 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
True Tri-Met is No better then a person with no drive on the Welfare system.....
Tri-Met wont change anything they have a great thing going with all of the hand outs they get.....
Why would Tri-Met change and why would an unmotivated person get off or welfare??
Our liberal goverment coupled with all of these social hand outs are very out of hand!!
"sam"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 11:42 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"True Tri-Met is No better then a person with no drive on the Welfare system....." "Our liberal goverment coupled with all of these social hand outs are very out of hand!!" etc.
Such impeccable spelling and grammar. Kudos. Gold star for you.
"Not your teacher."
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 01:50 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
who cares about the spelling? must hit close to home with you? im sure you are a genius huh?? you must be to comment on a newspaper blog and worry about things like grammar and spelling!!
Are you on the Welfare System yourself?? Word to the wise TRI-MET does not take the oregon trail card yet, but soon it may!
"sam"
(email verified)
Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 02:06 PM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
Tri-Met will not soon be taking the Oregon Trail card because they don't care who pays or not! I think the idea of performance based pay is one that should be explored. Even the threat of it might wake Tri-Met up.
As for spelling and grammer, it makes your blurb much more readable and comprehendable if you do make an effort to write coherently. Sure, typos occur, but do try to make your thoughts coherent. A fine example of how silly someone looks when they do not do so is poormatthewvantress, who seems unable or unwilling to use caps, punctuation, or a space bar. His rants come off as even more dim as a result.
"Centennial neighbor"
(email verified)
Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 02:51 AM
Re: Pressure mounts for more MAX fixes
"The 2007 session gave TriMet $250,000 toward the new light-rail line planned between Portland and Milwaukie."
You're missing a few zeros, Jim.
""
(email verified)
Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 01:33 AM
Editorial response:
You are correct. The 2007 Oregon Legislature gave TriMet $250 million towards the Milwaukie line. I have corrected the figure in the online version of the story. - Jim Redden