Free transit rides may end

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Sounds good to me.

Of course talk is cheap, let's see if anything actually happens.

But it appears, at least to me, that Mr. Hanson is taking this seriously.

And if he is indeed taking all this seriously then things will change for the better!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 04:04 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

"Repairing and replacing faulty ticket vending machines to ensure that all stations have working dispensers by February."

Wow. It's only been years that these have not been working. And here Tri Met is taking action and promising results in only two months! What service!

"indy"

(email verified)

Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 04:27 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

“I will be monitoring these changes to ensure these steps truly target the problems on the system…”

That’s Hansen talking. Sounds like a “Mission Accomplished” statement to me. Unless Hansen personally rides alone on various routes of the MAX at randomly different times each and every day, his words are hollow. He makes a lot of money. He can put in the overtime.

"Transit Customer"

(email verified)

Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 10:09 PM

Tri-Met says it will fix the crime problem, Again?

McKay said there were indications some of the security problems aboard Tri-Met vehicles were “gang-related.'’ In a prepared statement, Governor Goldschmidt said:

"I am absolutely adamant that its (Portland’s) citizens feel safe at all times in using a fine mass transit system."

1988

"some things never change"

(email verified)

Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 11:50 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Hansen estimates that around 8 percent of riders are not paying fares but says TriMet does not track light-rail evaders separately from those on buses. Agency spokeswoman Mary Fetsch says the percentage of MAX fare evaders probably is higher that those on the buses."

Is probably higher? 8% is so way out of reality, I am surprised he could give this figure without breaking out in hysterical laughter

Several law enforcement officials believe the percentage of MAX fare evaders is substantial, however.

According to Gresham Police Chief Carla Piluso, when one officer recently boarded a train and gave passengers the option of showing their tickets or getting off, more than half disembarked."

This is a MUCH more valid estimate. How are they going to deal with fare evaders (who probably cause about 99% of the problems) if they don't even think there are that many fare evaders?

"Greshamguy"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:26 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

THIS IS HILARIOUS!

BASICALLY HE'S DOING NOTHING!

READ THE ARTICLE CLOSELY.

HE'S GETTING 3 MORE POLICE! THATS RIGHT THREE!

10% more is three! He's going to cut the bushes! He's going to fix the machines! (sure you are!)

This guys a joke.

"B.C."

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:49 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Congrats on doing to little Hansen!

No one should be allowed to ride for free merely because they live in one geographical location in the city. Either you make it a free ride for every citizen or none of the citizens.

Wow, more fare inspectors to walk past the gang members, drunks and tweakers and ask people in business suits to show their tickets, pathetic! It's like taking a bad joke and trying to make it funnier!

Wow, 3 more cops to patrol, whew, hansen is really in touch. 19 more unarmed, can't write a ticket Wackenhunt security members, there's a deterent!

How about firing Hansen and hiring someone who has a set?

"Nobody rides for free!"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:38 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

I have to agree that fare evaders are the bulk of the problem. Put a fare inspector on every train, and I have to think that it pays for itself, between writing tickets and the increased purchase of fares...

It took how many years for this block head (Hanson) to make these common sense changes?!

Me thinks its time for a new TriMet Chairperson...

"MAX Rider"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:43 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

What is your bet? I bet 50% travel for free under the age of 20.

"Moe"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 02:23 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Moe, I have gotten to a platform 10 minutes before a train, bought a ticket, watched 30 more people arrive and seen only 2 buy a ticket or validate one. I think the problem is much greater than 50%.

Tri-met doesn't put their fare inspectors on after dark, or during the hours the fare jumpers ride. Everything they do is for show, it is a useless program and adding some more uselessness to it won't solve it!

"Nobody rides for free!"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 02:33 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

So typical of gummint agencies to take action only when public outrage reaches the boiling point.

TriMet has been a hub for crime and scum for years and this bureaucrat fool, Hansen, has done nothing.

And we Portland-area residents sit around like good little sheep and just allow "progressive" policies to ruin our quality of life.

Ya'll get what you voted for.

"Chris McMullen"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 03:05 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

HEAR ME NOW LOOKS AT TRIMET CHIEFS PROPOSAL:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9IvbfKnNzZc

"AL M"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 03:19 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Because I generally pay attention to civic affairs affairs enough to recognize a guy like Fred Hansen when I see him, I can personally attest to seeing him, alone, riding MAX. And not always at the same time of day or night. So I wish people who were going to engage in this debate would refrain from simply sitting back in the cheap seats and taking potshots at a guy like Hansen, or any other civic leaders.

I don't defend any of these guys wholesale, but my God, if cynical comments are all we can muster, we aren't going to be able to accomplish anything positive. And, as for showing up early at a MAX stop and not seeing everyone getting a ticket, it's quite possible those people already have a ticket, or, like me, a pass which allows them to go anywhere on the sytem (a pass I pay for, by the way).

I ride MAX all the time and am very aware of the deadbeats, loudmouthed ignoramuses and others who can making riding light rail a real pain in the kiester, but we need positve solutions, not sarcastic barbs from the peanut gallery, if we're going to solve this problem. I, for one, look forward to hearing what Hansen tells the City Club today.

"Goose Hollow Guy"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 04:38 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Goose Hollow Guy, you clearly are new to the Trib "comment" section if you have any modicum of expectation for rational or thoughtful dialogue.

""

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 05:14 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Goose Hollow Guy, great cynical remarks about the cynical remarks from other posters.

I'm really impressed that you feel we need less cynicism and more ideas. Unfortunately there were no ideas in your post other than your cynic view of those you feel are cynics.

That would make you a hypocrit in addition to a cynic. I'd rather read a cynics views more than a hypocrits any day.

"Goose Shallow Guy"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:12 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Why is a non-union people going to do a union job by cking the fares and behavor problems. HIRE MORE FARE INSPECTORS AND POLICE!!!!!

"Proud union member"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:34 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

I don't think they're doing enough! I would shut the system down after 7PM and for those truly destitute that need a ride then they can present their bus pass to a cab company for a ride and get reimbursed from TriMet. It seems that it would be cheaper than running an empty MAX except for the hooligans which seem to be entrenched in the Portland area. I got so sick of the panhandling vagrants all over that I up and moved out of the entire Metro area and went to Salem. During the day they should have Oregon State Police with machine guns and German Shepherds to really scare these hooligans out of Oregon for good!

"GTinSalem"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:23 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Mr. Hansen's proposed safety measures will not eliminate the problem, but they are steps in the right direction.

While I agree that Fareless Square should be eliminated, I think there is very little relation between this issue and the subject of safety out in Gresham.

Fareless Square, in combination with the downtown parking restrictions, has accomplished its goals over the past three decades of its existence. Downtown has been revitalized, transit and pedestrian friendly areas have been formed, and pollution is very low for a city this size.

Getting rid of Fareless Square now is the right thing to do because it will virtually eliminate the problems associated with all the people who are freely roaming around on the trains who have no meaningful transportation intent. Assuming that the fare is kept reasonably low, people who need or want to travel within the downtown core would still be motivated to use transit because it is far easier to do so by bus, train, or streetcar than it is by car (this was not necessarily the case back in the 70's when Fareless Square was formed).

I'm glad that Trimet is attempting to address safety issues (both real and perceived), and I hope that they keep working in this direction even after the headlines have faded. Increasing safety and removing Fareless Square would be positive steps that would increase the customer base, which ultimately results in more revenue and fewer cars on the road. With the current projects (Clackamas Town Center MAX, Bus Mall reconstruction, WES, streetcar expansion) and the proposed projects (rail-enabled Columbia River Crossing, Milwaukie MAX) on the board, I can think of no better time for Trimet to address these important issues.

"Greg"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:24 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

I say let us put all of the crime-met big wigs on the buses, trains and trolleys and force them to ride these dens of sin. If they had to be there daily and face the reality of the situation things would change at light speed. Can someone ask the board if they have ever been on a bus after dark? It is like a walk through central park, pretty scary.

"Steven"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:38 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

A beating in Gresham results in... restricting fareless square 15 miles away? How is that going to help the crime in Gresham or 82nd Avenue, or all the other stations for that matter?

"Chris F"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:50 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

The Tri Met fi-ass-co is just a symptom of the bigger issue that falls in the lap of our inept left wing socialist leaders.

Coddle the criminals ( list as appropriate ) and suck up the moral ineptitude. Strong and moral leaders would solve the criminal activity and lawlessness with enforcement tactics and strong leadership.

The city council clearly condones illegal activity in all shapes and colors. You voted for them and now you are paying the price of your folly.

Your utopia is crumbling before your liberal eyes and will only get worse as long as the morally bankrupt leaders are there to close their eyes to illegal behavior.

When they police are ordered to only yell at criminals now you have to expect that the (element) will only be met with the (tom potter soft touch) and look the other way syndrome.

Yes I would say that you have yourself in quite a fix here mr. stumptown liberal.

"memyselfandi"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:54 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Fareless Square should be eliminated in most of NW Portland since it's mostly snobby Pearlyites who now reside there and very few businesses lie along any of the bus/train/streetcar routes. Why should I pay to use the system and they don't?

"Erik"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:16 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Steven -

I've attended many transit-related public meetings and am able to recognize a number of TriMet staffers and folks from other government entities ... I occasionally bump into these people using transit, not riding in groups, and sometimes after dark. That includes Mr. Hansen. (Incidentally, Fred Hansen reportedly rides the #17 bus to and from work on a regular basis.)

So, you may disagree completely with how the agency is run, but it is incorrect to say that these people haven't ridden transit after dark.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

I like how the comments disparaging fareless square alternate between portraying the users as being primarily dregs and criminals, and the users being "mostly snobby Pearlyites".

Those "Pearlyites" can't be all that snobby if they share transit with scum and villainy.

Erik also writes that "very few businesses lie along any of the bus/train/streetcar routes." Are you kidding? Most of the downtown retail core is situated along MAX and the central business district along the transit mall. Fareless Square stops halfway into the pearl district, before you get to the mostly-residential area.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:03 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Fred Hansen proposes to spend $500,000 in previously unbudgeted funds towards MAX security.

Where is this money coming from?

If past experience is any indication of future performance, we know that he will simply take it from bus operations, which means that while he's sucking up to the MAX crowd, 2/3rds of Portland's transit ridership is going to feel the brunt of the financial impact.

I want a full accounting of where this money is coming from - and an ironclad assurance it won't come from bus operations. If he wants to lay off some managers, fine by me. Maybe only reprint timetables once a year? Stop installing new bus stop signs? Stop buying new fleet vehicles for its managers to drive around in? Forgo new computers for a year?

"Erik H."

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:19 AM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Well I see that our government apologist and local know it all bob is back on board. Mr. never ridden a bus before. Bob go climb under sams desk and earn your keep. We are sick of excuses and being prayed upon by the criminals that the mayor coddles. Go away bob and never show your know it all face here again. We deserve to be safe and do not need EXCUSES!!!

"Friends of meatpuppet"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:42 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Someone called "Friends of meatpuppet", for some mysterious reason, refers to me as "Mr. never ridden a bus before."

Where did you pull that one from? I grew up using transit in this area, and I still ride buses fairly often. Do you have something against buses?

What "excuses" do you accuse me of making here?

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 02:26 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

I think TriMet is a dysfunctional mess! Their drivers are incompetant and not very customer service focused, their stupid fare collecting machines are always broken, they let criminals run amok on their system, they go REALLY slow, especially their stupid MAX and Slow Trolley (aka Streetcar) system. We need a 21st century underground subway system in the Portland area, not a cheesy slow system based on 3rd world country technology from the 1800's. They don't even manufacture this garbage anywhere in the U.S. they have to import it from Eastern Europe. So much for their "buy local" drivel they don't even follow themselves. To boot, they want everyone to live stacked in like sardines in their living quarters. Portland is NOT Northwest living at its finest! People in the Northwest should live close to nature, not crammed into tight concrete spaces and ride Nazi cattle cars for transportation. Rise up and overthrow this nefarious totalitarian regime in the Portland Metropolitan Area.

""

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 03:00 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Goose Shallow Guy -- I may not have offered any ideas, but at least I am open to them. You, on the other hand, clearly prefer the vacuum of cynicism, I suppose because you are so devoid of ideas all you can come up with are cavalier accusations of hypocricy such as the one above. That's fine. The rest of us will sort out the wheat from the chaff of ideas and work to solve the problem while you sit in perverse judgement.

"Goose Hollow Guy"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 03:44 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

Folks, I heard Mr. Hansen on the radio last night and it appears that he finally has the overall macro/micro picture of the overall problem(s) after all this time. More cops, more security, more camera's and more management involvement. Hat's off to all the people that couldn't wait for the final word - thanks to Bob and Al for being there...

"john"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 04:22 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

still not good enough mr hansen.

"matthew vantress"

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:00 PM

Re: TriMet chief goes on the offensive for safety

While I like these changes, I have to agree that it's not enough. TriMet needs to close off MAX platforms to people who aren't paying to ride at EVERY station. The honor system is a thing of the past.

As for faulty ticket machines, TriMet should add something that sends a signal when the machine is malfunctioning, so that TriMet can send a crew out to repair it right away.

I also think that it's time for TriMet to at least give the eastside MAX stations a fresh coat of paint, preferably with a color that doesn't look so dated. Most stations look like they haven't seen new paint since 1986 (except in the areas where graffiti has been removed). I'd like to see public art extended to the old stations that don't have them as well. Sure, it doesn't do anything security-wise, but they'll look a LOT better than they do now.

""

(email verified)

Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:34 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

My son in mentally ill. He doesn't understand that he needs to get a ticket to ride Max. He just gets on.

But the fare inspectors have given him at least 30 tickets and he has been banned from riding Max. This doesn't stop him though as he doesn't understand what being banned means. So now he gets tickets for trespassing.

Yet there are hundreds of people who use Max for free all day long, especially the criminals.

I'll bet they don't get tickets since fare inspectors only go after the weak.

"Max: facilitating crime with free rides to criminals"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 12:41 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Let's face it, it would be far too expensive to add pay corrals as you see in other cities. If you look at the BART for example, to access the train you have to enter through a turnbuckle that only opens when you insert a paid ticket.

That would be great for the MAX, but it would require building many suh facilities to accomplish this. This would have required planning BEFORE the MAX was built. If it took multiple serious crimes to inspire $500,000, it will take a lot more to get pay corrals.

The only solution is 100% monitoring.

What I don't get is the lack of understanding of basic business. More paying customers equals more revenue.

"Beaverton B"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 01:27 AM

This time Tri Met means it!!

TRI-MET TO TRIPLE MONEY BUDGETED FOR SECURITY

Oregonian, The

June 24, 1988

STAN FEDERMAN -

GOVERNOR DIRECTS STATE POLICE TO RIDE TRI-MET

Oregonian, The

November 12, 1988

STAN FEDERMAN -

POLICE PREPARE TO BEGIN PATROLS FOR TRI-MET SPECIAL

PORTLAND UNIT TO BE VISIBLE, INVISIBLE ON BUSES AND TRAINS

Oregonian, The

April 30, 1989

ROCKWOOD POLICING PLAN SLATED TO YIELD

IMMEDIATE IMPACT

Oregonian, The

July 26, 1990

STEVEN AMICK -

TRI-MET DEVELOPS FAR-REACHING SECURITY PLAN

Oregonian, The (Portland, OR)

September 19, 1997

DAVID R. ANDERSON

ROCKWOOD GROUP PROPOSES CITIZEN PATROL

TO REDUCE LIGHT-RAIL PROBLEMS

Oregonian, The

May 17, 1999

This is like the mother telling the child

This time I mean it!!

"Here we go again"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 01:52 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Wow they finally figured out what is really going on with public transportation nothing good.

"Thomas Jefferson Lives"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:15 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Gresham police use common sense. Instead of guessing or spending tens of thousands of dollars to find out how many ride for free, just do what Gresham police did--show the ticket or get off. Half or more left the max car. Do this throughout the lines and find out how many ride free. Do not let tri-met officials lie to us anymore. Charge people.

"John Doe"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:26 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"I would shut the system down after 7PM and for those truly destitute that need a ride then they can present their bus pass to a cab company for a ride and get reimbursed from TriMet."

LOL!!LOL!!

"GTinSalem" i can always count on you for a good post!

``````````````````````

"I say let us put all of the crime-met big wigs on the buses"

LOL!!LOL, man oh man, some of you guys really are funny!

````````````````````````````````````

"Their drivers are incompetant and not very customer service focused,"

HEY PAL, I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK..YUK YUK YUK...

ps;learn how to use spell checker before calling other incompetent!....YUK YUK YUK..........

`````````````

"This is like the mother telling the child

This time I mean it!!"

Hmmmmmmmm, something to consider for sure!

``````````````````````````

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 03:01 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Once again Goose Hollow Guy, you brought nothing to the table but cynical remarks and personnal attacks. Why do you bother posting at all? Do you have any ideas or just negative comments?

Here's a few of mine: Spend the extra cash putting up the turnstiles and partolling the stops heavily to deter the criminal elements and fare jumpers.

Increase tickets checks getting on, off and during the ride. Increase the fines and start prosecuting the troublemakers.

End Fareless Square entirely , not just 7-7. Unless every citizen is allowed to ride for free on all sections of the Max. There is no reason that any citizen should ride on the rest of our dime merely because they live in a certain geographical location.

If you don't have a ticket and can't produce an ID, you go to jail and get to empty the MAX trash can for a day. If you don't pay your fine you get to do it again.

You see Goose Hallow? Ideas, you stated we need them, cynically critisized people for not putting their ideas down but put none of your own down in a hypocritical manner. Given the opprtunity to put your ideas down again, you choose to whine in a cynical manner.

Do you have any ideas or are you just on here to critisize others?

"Goose Swallow Guy"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 03:04 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

OK. I can buy the fareless between 7-7, however I still think the idea S-U-C-K-S, and not just because it makes the idea of HOMELAND SECURITY a complete joke, (which it is anyway) but because it is;

DISCRIMINATORY;

Against all the riders that have to pay for using trimet.

MAKE THE WHOLE THING FARELESS OR GET RID OF FARELESS SQUARE.

END TRIMET APARTHEID!

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!

People that live in downtown don't have to pay the tax therefore nobody should have to pay the tax. (aka fare)

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 04:15 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

and you don't need security if you follow these simple instructions:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xAepUGRUg0s

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 04:16 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"Max: facilitating crime with free rides to criminals" -If you are for real, I will pay for your son to ride Max for a year if you can guarantee me access to his medical files. Too much stuff from so many people - let's keep it simple folks because the average person does not read more than a paragraph before reaching a decision no matter how brilliant you think you are...

"john"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

MAX WAS A BIG MISTAKE FROM THE BEGINNING. IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN BUILT. This is coming from someone who grew up on the NYC subways.

The original plan was to have a busway in the Banfield WITHOUT stations. (I assume that local and limited-stop buses would have served the area up to Gateway.) But then some 'planners' went over to Europe and then decided to do LRT (with stations), probably encouraged by the local 'railfan' crowd (e.g., Mr. Howell).

Now, the thing is, express buses to Gateway, which then could then branch out in East County, would have meant much better service for that area, than the all-stop, slow,inflexible, and security problem prone MAX that we have now.

Portland just does not have the layout and population density for rail operations. Plus, we are NOT Europe.

"Nick theoldurbanist"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 12:49 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

I've never understood why TriMet believed the people of Portland were more honest than the people of every other major city in America- to think that Portlanders would "volunteer" under an honor system to pay the fare, while everywhere else one must pay up BEFORE accessing the service. What a joke.

Now the chickens are home to roost, and they're going to beat you up and steal from you while they're doing drugs, pissing in the corners and generally making everyone else miserable who are only trying to get from A to B.

TriMet started this mess when they system was designed, and while more cops and fare inspectors would help(and should be allocated NOW), it won't solve the problem.

Everyone needs to pay the fare, every time at every station every day. No exceptions. Find a way to make it happen. Surely someone can create a system that won't require a zillion dollar overhaul of every station. It's just not that complicated, folks.

"mamabigdog"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 01:31 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"mamabigdog" I agree 100% with wht you just posted and what Nick above you did. I'm eagerly awaiting the response from a particular city government apologist. Let's see if he chooses to respond to your posts.

"the other Steve"

(email verified)

Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:49 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"only agency employees represented by the Amalgamated Transit Union are currently authorized to check fares."

Good thing to know that our safety is in the hands of people who want nothing more than to line their pockets.

"Improving station areas by trimming landscaping, increasing lighting and adding more closed-circuit security cameras. One goal is to have cameras on 30 of 64 MAX stations by the end of the years."

Wow...now I really feel safe. Which stations have have cameras? Probably all the ones where the crimes actually are committed. Why not canvas EVERY station with cameras? It's a deterrent.

Tri-Met will never change. They'll never fully address the problem. And until they will not achieve the ridership they could achieve until they really tighten the screws. Just think, how many more riders would they have if they made the system safe! In order to make $ you have to spend $

"GED"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 12:06 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

No more free rides - PERIOD!!!!

You want to ride the toy train, then pay the cost, the full cost (which isn't what they 'charge' at the fare box). At a minimum, fareless square is history, manned ticket booths at every stop that you can get on and no toy train after 9:00PM.

MAX has just been a big sucking sound (as in sucking tax dollars) ever since it came into existence.

"native oregonian"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 12:53 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

This is a mixed bag.

I have been riding MAX and buses for 10 years. I've save a lot of cash. No car payments. No insurance payments. No gas payments. No new tires. No fix-it problems. No parking fees. Thanks TriMet.

There are, of course, those people who use vulgar language, smell terrible, what have you... but these aren't crimes.

However, MAX is another story. Let's face it, downtown is small enough to walk. A trip from PSU to the Pearl District takes 15 minutes on foot. Sometimes the wait for the streetcard is that long. Let's face it, may of those people taking up two seats could use the exercise.

Buses already run through downtown. Anyone can hop on a bus. Keep fareless on buses.

Everyone should pay for their ride. TriMet should provide more fare inspectors. (I've seen them about 10 times in the past 10 years). Transit police should ride the trains. (I've never seen them on the trains). Calls placed to TriMet are answered by a well meaning person, but Fred Hanson? He's a joke. He's ultimatley responsible for the mess TriMet's in.

Buses - Too many stops... Wouldn't every four or five blocks be more efficient? Wouldn't we save on signage and gas? I know someone's going to boohoo about the handicapped. Doesn't TriMet already have a vehicle dedicated to his service?

Those bus stop outcroppings on Hawthorne and Alberta were a huge mistake. Who was the idiot that thought that one up? Let's hold up traffic, GREAT IDEA IDIOT.

Portland Streetcar - elminate fareless. You guys are shuttling a bunch of street bags from one side of town to another. Don't sit on the cloth seats - bedbugs and lice.

The fare machines never work.

The trains are 10+ years now. They break down every Friday at 5 p.m. I feel sorry for the people who live far out. There's never a place to sit and the ride's an hour long. I encourage everyone who agrees to call 503-238-RIDE (7433).

YOU DESERVE BETTER!

"Kvetch on TriMet"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 01:16 AM

Lack of access control is due to number fudging by light rail avocates

A big part of the reason there is no access control for MAX and Streetcar is because the people foisting light rail on us had to cut every corner to make it appear cost competitive with bus transit. Adding the turnstiles, additional space requirement (especially downtown), and on-going effective fare inspections would require greater capital investment, more annual maintenance, and additional salaries. These are numbers the light rail folks want to ignore, because they are significant. Light rail avocates stop lying to us. Show us the real costs!

"We're being taken for a ride"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 02:24 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"let's keep it simple folks because the average person does not read more than a paragraph before reaching a decision no matter how brilliant you think you are..."

BINGO!!!

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"Portland just does not have the layout and population density for rail operations. Plus, we are NOT Europe."

I agree with you Nick, however I support the blue and the red line. The yellow line will prove its worth when it goes up to Vancouver. However, that should be the end of it. the street car and the green line are pork barrel projects.

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"Everyone needs to pay the fare, every time at every station every day."

The only way to run a transit system!

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"Good thing to know that our safety is in the hands of people who want nothing more than to line their pockets."

OH COME ON NOW!

Having a livable wage job is lining your pocket book?

"Why not canvas EVERY station with cameras? It's a deterrent."

I was really disappointed that Mr Hanson did not decide to cover all the max stations RIGHT NOW with camera's.

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"Buses - Too many stops... Wouldn't every four or five blocks be more efficient? "

GREAT IDEA!

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"Light rail avocates stop lying to us. "

The power brokers want light rail, what the public wants is of no concern to them.

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 05:06 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

I recently retired from the Beaverton Police Department after 30 years of service with the City. During the past eight years I haven’t seen an armed police officer, in uniform, and who is on the TriMet detail ride MAX while on duty. The officers on the TriMet detail simply patrol the MAX stations in their patrol cars. If Mr. Hansen wants to see the problems reduced then he needs to hire additional officers for proper staffing and have them park their patrol cars and board and ride MAX, in uniform, and not just on the days when they invite the press to see a special overtime sweep on the MAX line as they did in the last month.

"Dennis Marley"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 05:07 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"mamabigdog" wrote: "I've never understood why TriMet believed the people of Portland were more honest than the people of every other major city in America- to think that Portlanders would "volunteer" under an honor system to pay the fare, while everywhere else one must pay up BEFORE accessing the service. What a joke."

You are incorrect about "everywhere else".

TriMet is not the only transit agency which operates under a proof-of-payment "honor" system. Dozens of American cities with light rail do, in fact, including San Diego, St. Louis, Baltimore, San Francisco (newer extensions), Denver, New Jersey, San Jose, Dallas and Houston.

We should look to those cities to see what problems we have in common, and the different approaches to addressing those problems. If those cities are achieving a better degree of security than we are, we should look to emulate what they are doing.

For example, San Diego reportedly has a fare evasion rate of 2% with 28% of riders encountering fare inspectors every day.

If that's what it takes to improve the situation in Portland, then that's what we should do. It's not rocket science, and all the doom and gloom kvetching in the world isn't going to make light rail transit go away.

It should also be noted that in other cities with similar fare payment systems, the percentage of riders who carry monthly/annual passes is over 50%, sometimes approaching 70%. Because of this, casual observers often complain that they see a lot of people enter a station area without purchasing a ticket. This does not actually indicate a high level of evasion, it instead is indicative of the high percentage of people who have prepaid for rides in bulk.

The $500,000 increase which TriMet proposes for transit police, by the way, will not suddenly make MAX as expensive to operate as buses. That's about 1.5 cents per boarding ride. If they should be doing even more than that, a modest fare increase should do the trick, as long as it is dedicated to security in the long-term.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 07:02 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Bob R,

But does that $500,000 increase TriMet is proposing for transit police bring us in line with the security requirements that all the other places you mention, San Diego, SF, NJ, etc. need to achieve the fare compliance and safety that they are achieving? Or is TriMet and you once again low balling it?

""

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 07:46 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"If Mr. Hansen wants to see the problems reduced then he needs to hire additional officers for proper staffing and have them park their patrol cars and board and ride MAX, in uniform"

That's the only solution to the problem, and getting monitored camera's AT ALL the max platforms!

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"For example, San Diego reportedly has a fare evasion rate of 2% with 28% of riders encountering fare inspectors every day....

modest fare increase should do the trick, as long as it is dedicated to security in the long-term."

As usual, BOB R offers logical and practical solutions!

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"But does that $500,000 increase TriMet "

The additional $500k is nothing to trimet in terms of its overall impact on its budget.

It's the equivalent of a person with a 10k bank account putting up $6 to cover an additional expense.

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 08:26 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Anonymous asked: "But does that $500,000 increase TriMet is proposing for transit police bring us in line with the security requirements that all the other places you mention, San Diego, SF, NJ, etc. need to achieve the fare compliance and safety that they are achieving? Or is TriMet and you once again low balling it?"

I clearly stated we should find out what other cities are doing and how much it costs them. I'm not low-balling, I'm using TriMet's proposed figure as a baseline example. I also clearly followed that up with "If they should be doing more than that" and proposed a fare increase as the funding mechanism.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 08:35 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

I see the city government mouth piece is out again, I was wondering how long before Bob R. showed up to tell us how great the MAX is and how wrong everyone who doesn't think so is.

No one believes you anymore Bob R. , you've been shown to be a government hack!

"Babar"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 08:57 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Bob R,

The problem is $500,000 is clearly low-ball. I don't know exactly what police officers working the TriMet assignment make, but lets just say each requires $60,000 year with benefits etc. (it is probably more). So, $500,000 divided by $60,000 equals 8.33. Lets be generous and say that buys us nine officers a year. Each officer works a 40 hour week, there are 168 hours in a week. That equates to approx two additional officers working at all times. Two additional officers to cover the entire MAX system is truely a drop in the bucket. Sorry, $500,000 is definately another TriMet low-ball.

"Geo"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 09:00 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

OK, Geo, suppose it takes $2 million per year instead of $500,000. That's about 6 cents per light rail boarding ride, or 2 cents per transit boarding ride in general. As I mentioned before, if more is needed to be done than the $500,000 figure, a modest fare increase would be a way to fund the difference. 2 cents is just less than 1% of the current system-wide operating cost per boarding ride.

A 3% increase in passenger revenue from all sources (fares and passes) would raise well over $2M per year. A nickel fare increase, dedicated to security, would be a reasonable way to raise the funds without increasing non-passenger revenues such as payroll taxes or city contributions.

I don't work for TriMet or the city, and this is just a back-of-the-napkin analysis, but there's no reason this idea or another modest adjustment couldn't pay for increased security.

Another real proposal on the table is to reach an agreement with the union and the security contractor to let the private security officers inspect fares and eject unruly passengers, which they currently cannot do. If it can't be worked out with the union, I don't have a problem with replacing the private security with a union contract. This would result in fewer workers, but they would have greater authority, and at this point I think having a substantial increase in the number of actual fare-inspecting workers would offset the net loss of overall people in the field.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 09:19 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

" No one believes you anymore Bob R. , you've been shown to be a government hack!"

Bob R is a light rail advocate, not a government hack, THERE IS A HELL OF A DIFFERENCE THERE!

-------------------------

"Another real proposal on the table is to reach an agreement with the union and the security contractor to let the private security officers inspect fares and eject unruly passengers,"

NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Bob R, NO!

We cannot cave into this privatization crap that is being peddled everywhere.

Go take a look at all the desk jockeys that TRIMET has!

When they start eliminating overpaid desk jockeys then we all can start talking about eliminating livable wage jobs.

AND NOT ONE MINUTE BEFORE THAT!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 09:38 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Al -

Regarding the union contract, as I mentioned I do believe it would be preferable to have new fewer employees who are actual union members with authority to inspect fares, than to have outside contractors with no authority.

If TriMet can negotiate an equitable arrangement with the union regarding fare inspections by the current contractor, that's OK by me two ... clearly, the union should be involved in any kind of significant change like this to employment policy.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 09:53 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Typo: That should be "net fewer", not "new fewer".

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 09:56 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

I against any privatization of union livable wage jobs, unless the agency is in deep financial doo doo, which it obviously is not.

Fred wants to cheap out, well I say, NO WAY!

Too many fat cats at TRIMET to even begin hearing about this!

{of course I do not speak for nor represent the union, which in the end will make whatever deal best serves the interest of the union officials}

"AL M"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 10:08 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"suppose it takes $2 million per year instead of $500,000. That's about 6 cents per light rail boarding ride, or 2 cents per transit boarding ride in general."

Bob, thank you for illustrating my point.

If these transit officers are going to be dedicated to MAX operations only, bus riders should not be subsidizing them.

I fully expect a MAX operating cutback to cover this additional cost. Maybe reducing service west of Beaverton and east of Gateway to 20 minute intervals during early morning, midday, late evening and weekends would be a good start.

But in true TriMet fashion, they will cut bus service one way or another...

"Erik H."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 01:41 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

I have ridden buses and MAX since 2000, in the past year I have not had anyone ask to see my fare, which I have, since March.

It's fairly common knowledge that fares will not be inspected prior to 8 am or after 5 pm. Dump farless stuff, use a mixture of union and non union staff, use a collection agency to gather the fines of anyone who has more than 2 fines or fines not paid in 12 months.

In Febuary 2000 fare insectors were on the train at 4:15 am and after 7:00 pm. Should still be that way.

As for Buses, which I also ride - the 75 5:13 bus at St Johns is frequently a no show, or arives at the Lomabard MAX 2 minutes after he Yellow line is due to pull out. This makes the bus 18 minutes late so if increasing income is a concern and getting people out of their car and onto a buss is a goal buses need to be on time all of the time even during bad weather. The 75 3:30 west bound is more offten than not 1 or more hores late.

This si dooable without raising the fare. As it is if I take my ticket money and buy gas then it is faster, cheeper, safer and more convient for me to take my car to work.

"Sherman"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 01:43 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

We could get a bunch of bikes, paint them yellow, and all use them communally!

Oh wait...

""

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 02:26 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Erik wrote: "If these transit officers are going to be dedicated to MAX operations only, bus riders should not be subsidizing them."

The fallacy in your argument is that you assume that bus riders are never MAX riders and that MAX riders are never bus riders.

Although it is true that for some percentage of trips people will ride either buses or MAX exclusively, there are many trips in which riders will transfer from one mode to the other as part of their journey.

Thus, you cannot say that dedicating some amount of revenue to increased security on MAX should not be reflected somehow in bus fares.

In Fiscal Year 2006, when TriMet made some cutbacks in overall bus revenue hours, they also made some cutbacks in MAX revenue hours. So your statement that "in true TriMet fashion" bus service would be cut isn't entirely accurate.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 04:09 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Seems Bob R. is proposing new jobs for all those Blackwater hacks fresh from Iraq to work as privatized fare inspectors on the Max. Then we'll really be able to stop crime... oh wait, didn't those privatized henchmen cause far more harm than good?

Don't forget the great experience the TSA had with privatizing their security- what a success story!

As far as San Diego goes, the trains don't run directly to the convention center, the airport, Seaport Village or the naval bases, places that could really use it. The auto traffic makes the bus system useless. Forgive me if I don't support following a system set up to line the pockets of GOP San Diegans in a town which has seen more city/county government scandal in the last decade than any town on the west coast. I know this because I lived there. USN wife- when the sailor serves, the family serves with him.

Bob R. wants Portland to be just like San Diego. Corruption, scandals, fare jumpers and all. No Thanks.

"mamabigdog"

(email verified)

Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 05:35 PM

The point is that TriMet continues to hide the real costs

Bob R says "suppose it takes $2 million per year instead of $500,000." Which gets us right back to the original point which is why does TriMet continue to lie about the real costs? TriMet's credibility is nonexistent at the point. Folks this is the tip of the iceberg.

Milwaukie and Vancouver demand proper security before MAX is extended to your neighborhoods. And as to why Streetcar which is designed for dense urban environments is being proposed to run to Lake Oswego is beyond me. Most of that run is super low density, with almost no chance of ever being built up once south of Taylors Ferry. Say good-bye to your tax dollars.

"Geo"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 12:23 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

The easiest way to produce the revenue they need is to get rid of Fareless Square entirely. The people who need to ride that section will do it regardless only now they'll have to pay.

With that extra money they can start ticketing fare jumpers and slowly install a turnstile system, starting with the most abused stations. Any new stations can be built with the turnstiles in place.

The stations used primarily by the fare jumpers can also have tickets agents assigned to check for tickets and passes prior to the people getting on the trains.

Tri-Met would increase it's revenue by all these action without having to increase rates, though I'm open to that if it will keep fare jumpers off the trains!

"Nobody rides for free!"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:40 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

mamabigdog -

Where in the heck did you come up with that rant?

"Bob R. wants Portland to be just like San Diego. Corruption, scandals, fare jumpers and all. No Thanks."

You'd better not go into a career as a mind reader, because you're completely wrong.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:59 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Geo writes: "And as to why Streetcar which is designed for dense urban environments is being proposed to run to Lake Oswego is beyond me."

In large part because the existing right-of-way between John's Landing and Lake Oswego (which, by deed, can only be used for rail service or it goes away) offers the ability to operate a transit service in parallel to the highway, which due to geographic and property constraints cannot be widened.

The existing right-of-way is already publicly owned and the value of which can be considered a local contribution for a significant federal match -- much higher than would otherwise be available for such a project.

There will be few stops between John's Landing and Lake Oswego, allowing for reasonable trip times, and schedule consistency much better than running on the highway, especially at peak hour.

It may be the case that the project never pencils out. There are significant issues still to be examined and addressed. (For example, how will the #35 and riders coming from Oregon City and West Linn be addressed, how will a pedestrian trail fit in to the project, especially near the tunnel, how will impacts to private property be mitigated, etc.)

However, there are a number of good things going for the idea, which is why so many people are looking for ways to make it work.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 02:06 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Can we have a FARELESS square in Hillsboro,north plains,forest grove,cornelius ?

"NIEL"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 03:10 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Bravo to Trimet for continuing to make mass transit (both bus and light rail) work in PDX and beyond.

It should be pointed out again and again that Trimet is not responsible for crime in Gresham, Beaverton or PDX. If Gresham has crimes "near" light rail stops, then Gresham needs to do something about it, along w/Trimet. Is Trimet also to blame for crimes in Gresham (or anywhere else) that occur 1+ miles from light rail stops? Perhaps Trimet should have to pay for security everywhere, since no criminal ever drives to a crime site in a car!

And the fareless square issue is a red-herring; Gresham crime rates don't correlate to free light rail rides in downtown PDX.

Tighten up on collecting fares--get more empowered security people on trains--We all want to be and feel safe.

But Trimet is not responsible for poverty in the U.S.; and people w/out money are not criminals. Let's keep clear on reality here: "Louts" come in all economic classes.

"Mark in S.E."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 03:16 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"Can we have a FARELESS square in Hillsboro,north plains,forest grove,cornelius ?"

You can if those local governments which to have one.

The City of Portland and various business groups and agencies contribute somewhat to the costs of operating Fareless Square downtown (whether this is sufficient subsidy is up for debate).

If other localities wish to experiment with fareless concepts, there is nothing stopping them from working out an arrangement with TriMet.

Alternately, some localities such as Wilsonville have elected to withdraw from TriMet and operate their own local transit systems. In Wilsonville, some of the routes and areas are fareless. See www.ridesmart.com and click on "Fares" / "Fare FAQ" for details.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 03:18 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Tri met has the system it wants. It's all about the number of riders and if you let them ride free they still count. More riders mean more federal funds, more expansion and more bucks for Tri met brass.

"Spending tax dollars wisely"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 03:54 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

So...let's do the math again...

A perfectly valid and viable program is used well for years by a large majority of law-abiding, respectful citizens. The program enhances commerce and possibly reduces emissions from automobiles, creating a better and sustainable way of life for most Portlanders.

And for years, no one hears a thing about it.

Then, a tiny minority of thugs come along and abuse the system, and those abuses get a ton of press.

As a result, the program is scrapped and/or altered in such a way that the vast majority of law-abiding citizens can no longer take advantage of it as they used to, and on top of that can expect higher taxes and/or fares to pay for these changes.

Yep...the terrorists truly have won.

Only our terrorists come in the form of teenage punks and gangbangers who commit their crimes to try and garner repect/fear, but only end up proving they are the stupid, d1ckless wonders we all think they are.

It's true that the 1% rules the world - in this case, though, that 1% is made up of the dregs of society who manage to frighten the masses (sheep) into compliance with their extreme and limited views.

"J"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 04:27 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"It may be the case that the project never pencils out. " Really? When has one of the Light Rail projects ever penciled out?

Tell ya what, Bob R., let's try the question that chased you off last time: When exactly will the fare revenues from MAX users pay for the entire cost of system construction? Not just the bonds issued. When will the system have generated enough fare revenues to have paid for the cost of creating the system?

It is a one word answer. And I bet you avoid it like the plague.

"Chris"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 05:24 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Chris -

I'm not "avoiding" the question, I just don't share your philosophy. I don't have a problem with some degree of public subsidy for public transit. Others may disagree, and it's certainly fine to debate whether we should have subsidized public transit at all.

To answer your question directly: Never. Fare revenues will not pay for light rail construction, at least not on any of the lines we have now or the funding packages we have now. It was never intended that they do so. Fare revenues alone don't pay for the procurement of buses, either, or cover the operating costs. This is not some big secret.

You may as well have asked "When exactly will the tuition revenues from university students pay for the entire cost of higher education?" That answer is usually "never" for most major public and private universities, with both requiring large capital grants either from taxpayers or private donors, depending on the institution.

You can argue that there should be no public subsidy of higher education, that's fine, but don't go acting like public universities are secretly never going to get paid off by tuition, and that it's some kind of scandal that proponents of public education are unwilling to address.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 06:10 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Free rides are ending? Does that mean that the beatings with baseball bats and stabbings will end too? I doubt it!

"Dave"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 06:33 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

You will just have to pay to get beaten and stabbed now!

"Dave"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 06:33 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Bob R. once again spouting the city government "party line"

"The City of Portland and various business groups and agencies contribute somewhat to the costs of operating Fareless Square downtown (whether this is sufficient subsidy is up for debate)".

The city of Portland is the citizens and the riding citizens are paying for the Fareless Square people to ride for free. I'd like to see your source on that statement Bob. "contibute somewhat"? that was a pretty strong statement, not! It's every rider (who pays) that is subsidizing those free riders in Fareless Square and if they are recieving any money from the city than we're paying double for it.

It may be hard for you to concieve but the CITY can't pay Tri-Met with out using tax payers money. If they get rid of Fareless Square then they can use the tax money to up the patrols around the problem Max Stations city wide! The extra revenue from the Fareless Square riders can fund other security up grades.

Do you have a source for the businesses paying? I saw this post of yours and called 2 friends that own businesses in that area and they are not billed for Fareless Square Max riders. If you are taking a huge leap and declaring that some of their business tax goes to it, you've taken way to much "artistic license" on the statement.

Please state your sources!

"Nobody rides for free!"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 07:17 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Yes Dave, with the extra revenue produced by the downtown people paying their "fare" share; increased security procedures can be utilized to hopefully stop a lot of the criminal activities.

If nothing else every citizen without disabilities should pay the same amount to ride. It's a fair Fare!

"Nobody rides for free!"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 07:21 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Look, is there homeland security or not?

[don't answer that]

FARELESS SQUARE IS NOT FAIR TO EVERYONE THAT HAS TO PAY A FARE!

and it does nothing to promote homeland security either!

"AL M"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 07:37 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

"Nobody rides for free" --

I'll point you to a Portland Tribune article from April, 2006: "Panel urges review of TriMet free zone"

Link:

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=34963

From the article:

"The transportation office currently pays TriMet $274,000 a year to make up for lost fare revenue, said Ken Kinoshita, a city transportation budget manager."

There's also this TriMet document from 2001 regarding the extension of the Fareless zone to the Lloyd District:

http://trimet.org/pdfs/history/fareless6.pdf

"This free fare zone is funded by City parking meter revenues, a portion of the increase in the hotel/motel tax for the Convention Center expansion and Tri-Met."

So there are a couple of sources for where the subsidies for fareless square are coming from. I don't know what revenue sources the city is using to come up with its share.

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to say this: "It may be hard for you to concieve but the CITY can't pay Tri-Met with out using tax payers money."

I clearly stated I was talking about a "subsidy" ... in this context it should be obvious that subsidy == tax revenues to a large extent.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 07:50 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Lets put a bar on each max and give FREE drinks to everbody . then they wont have to use our tax dollars to keep the dam thing running it will also pay for guards to keep it safe if they can stay sober

"BERNIE"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 10:47 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Bob R., how nice that you get to point out how everyone in the universe is wrong when they disagree with you. Contrary to your belief, I'd like to see light rail become more usable in Portland- meaning that it actually goes someplace in SW Portland for a change. How is it that you can justify sending it all the way to Gresham and Hillsboro, but all points south of the city limits don't rate? Have you driven I-5 in the morning lately? Not Fun. Try taking the bus... if you want the commute to take 90 minutes longer than it would in your own car.

On top of this, you don't enforce the fares enough. I think commenter "Spending tax dollars wisely" has hit it on the head. More riders=more state/federal $ for TriMet and it's PDC buddies who build it. Sounds more like your dreamland in San Diego than you'd care to admit.

It's also more than absurd that small business owners in SW have to pay special income taxes for a system their towns and customers have very little access to.

I'm not against light rail as a rule- just light rail that doesn't make sense.

MBD

"mamabigdog"

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:33 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

mamabigdog -

I'd like to see high-capacity transit service, whether that be BRT with significant dedicated ROW, rapid streetcar (as it is now called in the industry), or light rail in the I-5/99W corridor.

That being said, it isn't true that light rail isn't being expanded to "all points south of the city limits". The Green Line to Clackamas is being constructed right now, and the Yellow Line extension to Milwaukie looks very likely to be constructed.

The east-west spine has been completed, and the Yellow Line project provided the starting basis for a N-S line. The transit mall expansion (part of the Green Line project) will also reorient the downtown running of the Yellow Line to N-S.

"On top of this, you don't enforce the fares enough."

I'm not sure if you are directing the "you" comment at me, but I don't work for TriMet. I'd be happy to provide you with references to posts I've made and public testimony I've given, going back a couple of years now, advocating the importance of increased fare inspection and increased staff presence on MAX.

I'm a small-business owner myself, and I pay TriMet taxes directly, so I understand completely how you want to be sure the public is getting worthwhile service whenever you sign that check.

"Bob R."

(email verified)

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:42 PM

Re: Free transit rides may end

In 1982, Tri-Met conducted its noble "Self Service Fare" experiment, and found that (gasp) there are people who will cheat the system.

Now, some 25 years later, the brains at Tri-Met are once again surprised to learn that some folks can not be trusted and will take advantage of the "honor" system. What a, uh, shocker.

So how does Tri-Met respond to a small minority of violators? Do they increase inspection and enforcement? No, they suggest punishing everyone because of the actions of a few.

I guess the next big "surprise" will be that rider ship is down and in order to meet declining revenues, fares and taxes will have to be raised.

"R. Lee"

(email verified)

Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 12:24 AM

Re: Free transit rides may end

Let's put Multnomah County Deputies on MAX and buses in Multnomah County. Take away Portland officers, who are tied to the same frequencies as their non-transit counterparts and more often to respond to incidents off of MAX. The only thing that should come across the Sheriff's radar is an officer in distress call....then any officer in the area responds....otherwise there is no distraction. Plus Sheriff Guisto can look good to the community, for once.

""

(email verified)

Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 11:49 AM